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[Music]

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this hope radio for the masses Atlanta

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between July 8 1947 the Army Air Force

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has an ops and applying her touches

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found and is now in the possession of

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the RA the game is rigged changed the

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game changer I occasionally think how

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quickly our differences worldwide would

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vanish if we were facing an alien threat

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from outside this world

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[Music]

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fade to black with your host Jimmy

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church on the game-changer Radio Network

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your help to get to the year 1980

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[Music]

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you are listening to fade to black with

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Jimmy judge on the game-changing Network

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[Music]

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good evening

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fade to black the spoke radio for the

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masses

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how you doing how you doing

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today's Tuesday November 12 2019 316

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days into the new year just 50 days left

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[Music]

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we are live from a bunker somewhere in

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the middle of beautiful downtown Burbank

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California and I would like to welcome

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everybody listening all around the world

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all across the United States

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[Music]

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hither and thither to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west north

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this is fade to black for kjc are the

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game changer Network in kg are they the

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planet I am your host Jimmy Church all

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right

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what is crack and everybody how you

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doing tonight very special guests at

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Jeffrey Mishlove joins us for the very

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first time tonight is a full night of

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new thinking get ready for that been

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looking forward to this for a very long

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time tomorrow night at Nightingale is

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back and we're going to be talking about

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Leonardo da Vinci and the Giza template

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that'll be tomorrow night and then

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Thursday is another Fator night with

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open lines all night long all right so

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that's our week we are good follow me on

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twitter @ JT radio that's what you want

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to do you want to start off at J church

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radio hashtag F to B is the sandbox

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hashtag F to B Q is fade to black

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questions okay you can email throughout

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the show Jimmy and Jimmy Church radio

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calm come and hang out in the sandbox oh

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all right welcome back fade to black I'm

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no semi Church can follow me on twitter

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IG Church radio join the conversation in

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the sandbox over at hash tag up to be

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simple enough to do tomorrow night at

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Nightingale is back with us to talk

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about Leonardo da Vinci and big Giza

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template Thursday night's another fader

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night with open lines all night long

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tonight Jeffery Mishler Jeffery mich

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loves career has been guided by dreams

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synchronicities mystical states and

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their philosophical implications he has

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consistently encouraged others to pay

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attention to these processes in their

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own lives and jeffrey has the

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distinction of holding a doctoral

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diploma in parapsychology which is the

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only such diploma ever awarded by an

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accredited American University he is

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also the past president of the

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California Society for psychical Studies

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and the past vice president of the

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Association for humanistic psychology

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Jeffery has also helped to create a new

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institution of higher education called

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the University of philosophical research

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that has recently been approved by the

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state of California to offer a distant

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learning master's degree in

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consciousness studies he serves as the

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Dean of programs for this College and

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also teaches the course in

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parapsychology he was also the host of

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thinking aloud an independent public

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television series that broadcast from

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1986 to 2002 and continues today as new

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thinking aloud on his YouTube channel

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and I would like to welcome for the

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first time to fade to black

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Jeffery Mishlove Jeffery good evening

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good evening and we're gonna start we

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actually we're gonna start with the

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first time gues disclaimer are you ready

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for that okay which is this Jeffrey it

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is just you and I sitting on my couch

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having a conversation as friends and

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where that conversation starts it starts

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and where it ends it ends but we're

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gonna end his friends there you go you

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ready okay this is a can I'm gonna start

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with a confessional and I need I need a

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moment

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of your time to say this that over the

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years many times on this broadcast I

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would reference any time

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Jacque Valley's name came up I would

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crack a little joke about him appearing

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to be an alien because of his eyes that

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were captured on thinking aloud and I

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made this reference and because of well

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it was 1986 but that the way that he

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would look the way that you captured him

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in that show was just unbelievable and

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it stayed with me all of these years so

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out of guilt last year I'm with Jacques

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and I said hey man I just got to tell

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you I'm sorry for making the little

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jokes about you you know looking alien

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like in Geoffrey mob show and you could

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see I heard about that and I don't worry

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about it it's kind of funny and he said

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but that interview was one of my best

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and people still talk about it today and

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we are talking about it right now and

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that was a special show for me and I

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said so we're cool and he said we're

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cool so Geoffrey I'm apologizing to you

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for the cracks over the years because

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the show just stuck with me and it's

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influenced so much of of what I do and I

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thank you for that so can we move on now

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I feel bad we can't yes I'm happy that

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the show touched you that way did and

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speaking of that let's actually start

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right there have you looked back and and

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thought about the influence that

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thinking aloud has had and the impact

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that it has had over the years with this

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community well interestingly these days

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on the new thinking aloud YouTube

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channel one of my very most popular

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guest is a young philosopher named Jason

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residue Johnny

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very controversial figure but the

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audience loves him and interestingly he

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tells me that as a 14 year old teenager

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he started watching thinking aloud and

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it had a big influence on his career so

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yeah I could look back since I've been

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doing this for so many decades and and

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see that it really has had an effect on

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people's careers which is honestly it's

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very gratifying now you said to me

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earlier today which I didn't know about

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but you started in radio all the way

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back in 1972 new thinking aloud was 1986

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but your broadcast career started back

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in 1972 were you discussing these issues

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in 72 and then thinking aloud just was a

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genesis of that that's right in 1972 I

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had the opportunity to host a program

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called the Minds year on KPFA pacifica

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radio and in Berkeley California

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and there's an interesting story behind

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that because I was guided to do that by

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a dream that I had and synchronicities

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for all of us I mentioned this in my

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opening of the show are things that need

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to be recognized so many don't right

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they they let these things just blow

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past them for me new thing can allow

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back in 1986 and and me getting wrapped

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up in that show and following it amongst

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other things that I was researching here

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we are in 2019 sitting down together and

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those are synchronicities that you just

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can't ignore there's something always

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driving your reality right mm-hmm

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well in in my case

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Jimmy I started out in in 1972 I was a

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graduate student at Berkeley in the

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field of criminology I was doing group

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therapy with murderers and rapists at

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San Quentin prison

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and I knew that I loved the study of

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human deviance but I wanted to switch

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from negative forms of human deviance to

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positive I really wanted to rather than

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just study in crime and psychopathology

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I wanted to study mysticism intuition

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creativity psychic functioning and I /

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that for months and months I had no idea

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how I was going to do it because at that

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time at the University of California

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they didn't have any programs of that

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sort were you aware of what was going on

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over at SR I at that time I became aware

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around that time yes because I actually

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back in 72 shortly after I started on

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KPFA I sponsored a large public event on

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the Berkeley campus with regal ER

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we filled Zellerbach auditorium over

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2,000 people it was Erie Geller's first

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public appearance in the United States

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before a large audience and it was

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around then that I learned he was also

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being tested by help put off in Russell

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target SR I did you have a chance to

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those must have I cannot imagine how

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electric the community would have been

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back then you know with Russell and and

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how and of course URI and what was going

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on over at SSRI

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because they were they were certainly

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breaking down fences and walls it was a

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very exciting time and you you know you

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mentioned Jack valet he of course was

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part of that whole scene back then in a

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very interesting way because he was one

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of the developers software developers of

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what was then called the ARPANET later

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on became the Internet and he was also

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engaged in as you know in UFO research

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and in parapsychology and he believed at

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the time that both of these areas the

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paranormal and the

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that had enormous potential to

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revolutionize society and I think all of

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us back then thought that there was

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going to be a major psychic revolution

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now looking back you know nearly half a

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century later we can say yes the

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internet did revolutionize society but

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parapsychology and UFO research has yet

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to do so

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and it's kind of strange to me I would

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love to hear your opinion on this where

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certain things have flip-flopped versus

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like you just mentioned parapsychology

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and and what was the future of it back

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in 1972 today is considered more pseudo

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and fringe as opposed to what the way it

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was perceived back then and and today

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UFOs and quantum mechanics and

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entanglement these are accepted norms

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today were back then that was fringe and

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ensued oh it's kind of weird isn't it

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how things have flip-flopped over the

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last 40 years yeah there's all sorts of

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social up and downs that occur I think

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actually the potential for

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parapsychology to revolutionize society

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is still there it's just going to be a

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slower process and you know also I

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should point out that there was a

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milestone that occurred about a year ago

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when the American Psychological

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Association which has always been

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skeptical of parapsychology and even

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hostile published a a major article in

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their flagship journal the American

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psychologist of a survey of about 1,400

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parapsychology experiments that had if

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you combine them together overwhelming

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statistical support for the existence of

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telepathy and psychokinesis so

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that it'll take a while for that sort of

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00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:42,680
data to seep into public awareness but

277
00:14:49,210 --> 00:14:46,350
the psychologist can no longer be such

278
00:14:52,580 --> 00:14:49,220
scoffers as they used to be since their

279
00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:52,590
leading journal has now acknowledged the

280
00:14:58,100 --> 00:14:54,420
existence of this phenomenon

281
00:14:59,860 --> 00:14:58,110
did you did you have a gift did you have

282
00:15:03,010 --> 00:14:59,870
something that you were pursuing

283
00:15:06,850 --> 00:15:03,020
personally through this research

284
00:15:11,930 --> 00:15:06,860
well I suppose back then in the early

285
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:11,940
1970s when I had just started school at

286
00:15:18,770 --> 00:15:15,510
Berkeley I had a series of precognitive

287
00:15:20,930 --> 00:15:18,780
dreams and or other forms of psychic

288
00:15:23,660 --> 00:15:20,940
dreams and one of them a great-uncle

289
00:15:26,210 --> 00:15:23,670
appeared to me in a dream and I woke up

290
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:26,220
I was singing and crying at the same

291
00:15:31,970 --> 00:15:28,530
time which has only happened to me that

292
00:15:35,930 --> 00:15:31,980
one time it was because he my great

293
00:15:38,270 --> 00:15:35,940
uncle Harry had touched me so deeply in

294
00:15:41,540 --> 00:15:38,280
some way in that dream and I wrote home

295
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:41,550
and said how's Uncle Harry had a dream

296
00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:43,650
about him and my mother called me

297
00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:45,720
immediately and said how did you know

298
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:50,790
uncle Harry just died I began asking my

299
00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:53,490
professors at Berkeley you know what did

300
00:15:58,400 --> 00:15:55,740
they have to say about such a thing and

301
00:16:00,560 --> 00:15:58,410
I quickly learned they had now none of

302
00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:00,570
them had anything intelligent to say

303
00:16:05,780 --> 00:16:03,390
about it whatsoever and I think it was

304
00:16:07,750 --> 00:16:05,790
then that I resolved that this was very

305
00:16:09,470 --> 00:16:07,760
important as one of the most powerful

306
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:09,480
experiences of my life

307
00:16:15,890 --> 00:16:13,410
and if I was going to understand it I

308
00:16:18,740 --> 00:16:15,900
would have to become my own expert and

309
00:16:21,340 --> 00:16:18,750
so what is that's an interesting thing

310
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:21,350
because you are you are a teacher your

311
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:26,510
professional academic and you look at

312
00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:30,510
Orthodox academia where you now if

313
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:32,310
you're gonna pursue this now you have to

314
00:16:37,610 --> 00:16:34,890
fight this system does that force you

315
00:16:41,390 --> 00:16:37,620
into becoming a rebel or at some points

316
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:41,400
do you have to conform well I did my

317
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:44,610
best to conform in fact I had a mentor

318
00:16:49,550 --> 00:16:47,310
while I was in graduate school Arthur M

319
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:49,560
Young who invented the Bell Helicopter

320
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,050
Durand founded the Institute for the

321
00:16:56,570 --> 00:16:54,240
study of consciousness and Berkeley and

322
00:16:59,360 --> 00:16:56,580
invited me to live with him and after I

323
00:17:02,450 --> 00:16:59,370
got my doctoral degree I came to visit

324
00:17:04,850 --> 00:17:02,460
him I was so proud and I talked to him

325
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:04,860
and he he was an astrologer and he

326
00:17:10,010 --> 00:17:07,410
pulled out his ephemeris and began

327
00:17:12,380 --> 00:17:10,020
looking at the dates and the planets and

328
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:12,390
and he asked me he said well how long

329
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:14,959
did it take you to get this degree and I

330
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:19,530
said well since I started working on it

331
00:17:25,550 --> 00:17:22,410
it was seven years he says well it'll

332
00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:25,560
take you another seven years to undo all

333
00:17:34,790 --> 00:17:30,780
the damage the University your

334
00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:34,800
interviews with him let's talk about

335
00:17:43,670 --> 00:17:38,940
this for a second you have a developed

336
00:17:47,650 --> 00:17:43,680
style and your your style and the way

337
00:17:52,730 --> 00:17:47,660
that you have approached certain guests

338
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:52,740
has enabled the and now I want to say

339
00:18:01,150 --> 00:17:57,090
this in the correct way to have the real

340
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:01,160
guests appear as opposed to going down

341
00:18:06,350 --> 00:18:04,110
generic questions that they are you know

342
00:18:10,060 --> 00:18:06,360
that they systematically answer over and

343
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:10,070
over again you have developed this

344
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:13,770
conversational approach to getting to

345
00:18:18,590 --> 00:18:16,530
the real guests like their personalities

346
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:18,600
you know what you did with Terence

347
00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:19,170
Mckenna

348
00:18:25,340 --> 00:18:22,760
it's this was probably his his greatest

349
00:18:27,169 --> 00:18:25,350
conversation he's ever had including he

350
00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:27,179
did how many times did you interview

351
00:18:37,310 --> 00:18:34,350
Arthur Young yeah right and and your

352
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:37,320
ability to do that it was that something

353
00:18:45,230 --> 00:18:40,910
that you were consciously doing the

354
00:18:47,570 --> 00:18:45,240
conversational style well I noticed that

355
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:47,580
you work the very same way Jimmy you

356
00:18:52,610 --> 00:18:49,679
don't work from prepared questions

357
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:52,620
everything is sort of spontaneous and in

358
00:18:58,520 --> 00:18:56,160
the moment and I think it just works

359
00:18:59,710 --> 00:18:58,530
well I've never used prepared questions

360
00:19:04,620 --> 00:18:59,720
and

361
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:04,630
I'll tell you when I was a teenager I

362
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:07,570
there's a bellhop at a resort in

363
00:19:12,460 --> 00:19:09,919
Wisconsin where I lived at Elkhart Lake

364
00:19:15,250 --> 00:19:12,470
Wisconsin and I noticed at the time

365
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:15,260
there was another bellhop there who was

366
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:18,799
really popular everybody loved this guy

367
00:19:24,190 --> 00:19:21,679
especially the women and I'm so I

368
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,200
started watching what he was doing and I

369
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:26,480
noticed that he was a very good listener

370
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:29,120
he listened carefully to people and he

371
00:19:34,659 --> 00:19:31,370
asked them lots of questions and I I

372
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:34,669
realized people love that and I think

373
00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:38,210
that was sort of the beginning for me I

374
00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:43,220
it is one of the things that I I really

375
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:44,870
feel because of the way that I've

376
00:19:51,460 --> 00:19:48,320
reacted to it it's what engages the

377
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:51,470
audience they they want to feel like

378
00:19:57,010 --> 00:19:54,710
they are part of the conversation as

379
00:19:59,140 --> 00:19:57,020
opposed to something generic that

380
00:20:02,110 --> 00:19:59,150
they're gonna maybe have already heard

381
00:20:04,090 --> 00:20:02,120
before and will hear again and I think

382
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:04,100
that's the way to always to try to

383
00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:10,870
approach it the let's back up again

384
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:15,049
before what was the idea take me back to

385
00:20:26,169 --> 00:20:21,679
85 86 the idea for thinking aloud how

386
00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:26,179
did that come about okay well I got my

387
00:20:33,549 --> 00:20:30,049
doctoral degree in parapsychology at

388
00:20:38,409 --> 00:20:33,559
Berkeley in 1980 and shortly after

389
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:38,419
getting the degree I was libeled and I

390
00:20:43,930 --> 00:20:41,690
fought a libel suit Psychology Today ran

391
00:20:45,970 --> 00:20:43,940
this article saying you know Mishlove

392
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:45,980
probably didn't even get the degree and

393
00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:48,080
if he did get it he certainly didn't

394
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:51,440
deserve it and it was I was mortified

395
00:20:57,549 --> 00:20:54,710
and spent six years fighting that libel

396
00:20:59,789 --> 00:20:57,559
suit and and when it ended I I felt like

397
00:21:03,490 --> 00:20:59,799
well I was ready to kind of become a

398
00:21:06,029 --> 00:21:03,500
public personality again because there

399
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:06,039
was a very painful six year period

400
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:09,650
people you know it's hard to face the

401
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:12,110
public when when you've had you know a

402
00:21:16,170 --> 00:21:13,360
major public

403
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:16,180
say nasty things about you and I was

404
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:23,290
embarrassed and so on but in 1986 when

405
00:21:30,660 --> 00:21:25,810
the law the law suit had been settled

406
00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:30,670
favorably for me I reached out to a

407
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:34,630
fellow named Arthur Bloch who was like

408
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:37,360
me he was sort of very devoted to Arthur

409
00:21:42,690 --> 00:21:39,850
M young and the Institute for the Study

410
00:21:46,590 --> 00:21:42,700
of consciousness and he had gotten a

411
00:21:49,410 --> 00:21:46,600
degree in video at the University of

412
00:21:51,870 --> 00:21:49,420
California Santa Cruz and and I proposed

413
00:21:55,380 --> 00:21:51,880
to him that we launched this TV show we

414
00:21:58,500 --> 00:21:55,390
did it we started out on public access

415
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:58,510
cable TV we did like a dozen shows and

416
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:01,360
took after that they said well that's

417
00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:03,370
all you get to do and so we went to a

418
00:22:09,210 --> 00:22:06,580
local PBS station and showed them what

419
00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:09,220
we had done and they said well we'll put

420
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:10,270
you on prime-time

421
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:13,450
once a week and we did that for a year

422
00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:15,280
and then they said we'll sponsor you for

423
00:22:20,130 --> 00:22:18,280
satellite uplink and the next thing I

424
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:20,140
knew we were being carried by about a

425
00:22:27,210 --> 00:22:22,720
hundred public TV stations all across

426
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:27,220
North America and the approach to it

427
00:22:32,850 --> 00:22:29,710
because and I'm talking about the

428
00:22:38,660 --> 00:22:32,860
subject matter where you are going to go

429
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:38,670
into areas that nobody else would

430
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:42,250
necessarily in primetime to cover these

431
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:47,440
and do you have to tiptoe or did PBS say

432
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:49,170
you know what just do your thing

433
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:53,170
well it wasn't PBS I'll start out by

434
00:22:58,260 --> 00:22:55,330
saying that and it wasn't the major

435
00:23:02,850 --> 00:22:58,270
public television stations either it was

436
00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:02,860
the smaller ones but and we had a lot of

437
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:04,870
trouble I remember when we first went

438
00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:06,880
out on the satellite there was a station

439
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:09,550
in Memphis Tennessee and and they

440
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:12,910
consulted a psychologist in their area

441
00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:15,370
to say should we carry this program and

442
00:23:19,980 --> 00:23:18,160
he told them and they reported back to

443
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:19,990
us he says the people of Tennessee are

444
00:23:27,260 --> 00:23:21,810
not ready for this

445
00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:27,270
exactly so did that force you into

446
00:23:31,410 --> 00:23:28,740
[Music]

447
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:31,420
emotionally in your own you know mind's

448
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:34,720
eye you don't want to change who you are

449
00:23:40,650 --> 00:23:37,090
but you also want to get the message out

450
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:40,660
you're kind of stuck right well you know

451
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:44,110
in the original thinking aloud series it

452
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:47,110
was we called it psychology philosophy

453
00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:50,170
health science and spirituality we

454
00:23:54,150 --> 00:23:53,080
didn't emphasize parapsychology as much

455
00:23:58,260 --> 00:23:54,160
as I do now

456
00:24:00,960 --> 00:23:58,270
and you on YouTube I have I think an

457
00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:00,970
even greater sense of freedom yeah

458
00:24:08,299 --> 00:24:04,840
YouTube gives that and one of one of the

459
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:08,309
things that I really enjoy is how you

460
00:24:15,419 --> 00:24:12,970
you are able to with your guests get

461
00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:15,429
into some pretty heavy physics heavy

462
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:18,220
science sometimes it's it's time travel

463
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:20,110
or it's parapsychology or it's

464
00:24:26,669 --> 00:24:24,370
spirituality but everything is there how

465
00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:26,679
are you able to tap into the knowledge

466
00:24:31,980 --> 00:24:29,020
of physics or is this something that you

467
00:24:34,890 --> 00:24:31,990
study or or you know quantum mechanics

468
00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:34,900
and and time-travel and spirituality and

469
00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:38,950
get that all together I'm so impressed

470
00:24:46,350 --> 00:24:43,420
with it well yeah you know I have never

471
00:24:51,060 --> 00:24:46,360
actually in my entire life taken a

472
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:51,070
course in physics but when I lived with

473
00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:53,110
Arthur Young at the Institute for the

474
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:55,840
Study of consciousness he was an

475
00:25:00,930 --> 00:24:57,850
engineer and my roommate there who's

476
00:25:03,810 --> 00:25:00,940
been a dear friend of mine for over 40

477
00:25:07,169 --> 00:25:03,820
years saw Paul SOG is written a book on

478
00:25:09,450 --> 00:25:07,179
physics and mathematics and Saul Paul

479
00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:09,460
was a college dropout who has had his

480
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:12,550
physics papers published in nature which

481
00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:15,130
a lot of professional physicists never

482
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:18,940
get to do so I've just been surrounded

483
00:25:23,970 --> 00:25:21,490
by these people and I don't know if

484
00:25:27,810 --> 00:25:23,980
you've seen my first book was published

485
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:27,820
in 1975 the roots of consciousness and I

486
00:25:37,090 --> 00:25:32,770
just seemed to have a talent for kind of

487
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:37,100
an encyclopedia coverage of these things

488
00:25:43,690 --> 00:25:41,090
it it served me very well on radio and

489
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:43,700
television now when we come back after

490
00:25:48,580 --> 00:25:45,770
the break I'm going to get into some

491
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:48,590
specific subjects and kind of leading

492
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:51,410
into that I want and I want to ask you

493
00:25:58,900 --> 00:25:56,960
this how has your opinions changed over

494
00:26:02,560 --> 00:25:58,910
the last 40 years on these different

495
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:02,570
subjects after you have interviewed you

496
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:04,850
know so many important guests you end up

497
00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:08,210
learning and acquiring knowledge and

498
00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:12,110
with that has has it changed to you is

499
00:26:21,010 --> 00:26:13,550
there something that is different today

500
00:26:23,290 --> 00:26:21,020
then than it was in 1972 or 86 okay well

501
00:26:30,730 --> 00:26:23,300
we're gonna do that after no no I'm

502
00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:30,740
asking now you know when I was a younger

503
00:26:37,420 --> 00:26:34,640
man I suppose I was very ambitious and I

504
00:26:39,820 --> 00:26:37,430
was thinking about my career and what I

505
00:26:42,610 --> 00:26:39,830
could accomplish in life and I wanted to

506
00:26:45,820 --> 00:26:42,620
do this and do that and at this point

507
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:45,830
and I'm in my life I am doing probably

508
00:26:51,370 --> 00:26:48,110
much more than I've ever done even

509
00:26:54,340 --> 00:26:51,380
though I'm in my 70s now and but I don't

510
00:26:57,490 --> 00:26:54,350
feel ambitious about it all I feel like

511
00:26:59,470 --> 00:26:57,500
I can just relax and let things flow and

512
00:27:02,470 --> 00:26:59,480
and I don't need to get anything back

513
00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:02,480
anymore I feel like I've had a good life

514
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:05,150
and and this is a time just to

515
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:09,410
contribute did you expect you know if

516
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:13,250
you go back to like the Jacques Vallee

517
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:18,110
interview in 1986 did you expect the UFO

518
00:27:29,620 --> 00:27:25,490
subject to have been answered today yes

519
00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:29,630
I I would say that I did and and one of

520
00:27:34,750 --> 00:27:32,630
the reasons was my own research you know

521
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:34,760
I published a book called the peak a man

522
00:27:41,650 --> 00:27:38,720
and in which I did spend 10 years

523
00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:41,660
studying this fellow named Ted Owens who

524
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:44,540
claimed to be in telepathic contact with

525
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:47,810
aliens and he could produce UFOs and

526
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:50,210
other extraordinary phenomena

527
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:53,930
on demand and he produced many many

528
00:28:00,730 --> 00:27:56,720
dozens of demonstrations of this sort

529
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:00,740
that were well documented so at the time

530
00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:04,310
I I think right from the very outset you

531
00:28:09,550 --> 00:28:07,100
know even including my early connections

532
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:09,560
with irregular who reported that his

533
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:11,810
psychokinetic abilities were also

534
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:14,810
related to UFOs I felt that there was a

535
00:28:19,660 --> 00:28:17,570
connection and it seemed pretty

536
00:28:23,140 --> 00:28:19,670
self-evident and there were you know

537
00:28:26,550 --> 00:28:23,150
many many dramatic UFO sightings then

538
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:26,560
and of course there still are today so I

539
00:28:34,330 --> 00:28:32,210
back then I was very hopeful that things

540
00:28:37,060 --> 00:28:34,340
were going to change immediately around

541
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:37,070
these topics I I did not appreciate the

542
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:40,010
enormous social resistance and what

543
00:28:46,780 --> 00:28:43,610
about we've got about 60 seconds with

544
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:46,790
today with the mass media and the

545
00:28:52,690 --> 00:28:49,610
reporting of UFOs and the subject of

546
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:52,700
aliens and of course the Navy and pilots

547
00:28:58,150 --> 00:28:54,770
coming forward in the New York Times and

548
00:29:01,720 --> 00:28:58,160
and CNN and Fox and president Trump

549
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:01,730
talking about UFOs yeah it's it's it's

550
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:04,010
never been like this before does that

551
00:29:08,350 --> 00:29:05,170
surprise you

552
00:29:13,660 --> 00:29:08,360
well Ronald Reagan talked about UFOs

553
00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:13,670
Jimmy Carter talked about UFOs so I I

554
00:29:18,270 --> 00:29:15,080
think you know they've always been

555
00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:18,280
around they haven't gone away but slowly

556
00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:22,390
very very slowly I think the

557
00:29:28,780 --> 00:29:24,590
acknowledgment of this phenomenon is

558
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:28,790
creeping into more mainstream awareness

559
00:29:34,030 --> 00:29:31,250
they the hostile skeptics have always

560
00:29:38,830 --> 00:29:34,040
used the horse laughs and that's not

561
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:38,840
working so well anymore no no I and I am

562
00:29:46,150 --> 00:29:42,770
so happy that I could be in a checkout

563
00:29:48,790 --> 00:29:46,160
stand talking to a cashier and if UFOs

564
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:48,800
came up nobody's gonna laugh you know or

565
00:29:53,860 --> 00:29:51,110
down the street or with my family or

566
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:53,870
friends that that today it's it's a

567
00:29:57,730 --> 00:29:55,490
different party and you're absolutely

568
00:30:00,220 --> 00:29:57,740
right about that let's take our break

569
00:30:01,510 --> 00:30:00,230
right here this is fade to black I am

570
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:01,520
your host Jimmy Church I guess tonight

571
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:03,130
Jeffrey mish law

572
00:30:08,490 --> 00:30:05,890
on the game changer Network and K GRA

573
00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:08,500
the planet you follow me on twitter HH

574
00:30:14,610 --> 00:30:10,870
radio email is jimmy at jimmy church

575
00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:14,620
radio calm Jeffries website is right

576
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:17,590
there at at hours and thinking aloud

577
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:20,080
calm you can go and click on those links

578
00:30:22,260 --> 00:30:21,610
we'll be right back after this short

579
00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:22,270
break

580
00:30:43,330 --> 00:30:23,240
stay with us

581
00:30:45,379 --> 00:30:43,340
[Music]

582
00:30:47,239 --> 00:30:45,389
welcome back fade to black our meal

583
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:47,249
signature tonight our guests Jeffrey

584
00:30:53,389 --> 00:30:50,399
Mishlove head over to new guard head

585
00:30:56,599 --> 00:30:53,399
over to thinking aloud Hakam and his

586
00:30:59,389 --> 00:30:56,609
YouTube channel new thinking aloud great

587
00:31:02,690 --> 00:30:59,399
clips and of course all of his new shows

588
00:31:04,639 --> 00:31:02,700
are right there and what I wanted to do

589
00:31:06,139 --> 00:31:04,649
Jeffrey we're all in a pursuit of

590
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:06,149
knowledge and you've been doing this for

591
00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:10,320
a very long time and today as I follow

592
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:12,840
the science community and I'm talking

593
00:31:17,659 --> 00:31:15,090
about the hardcore physicists out there

594
00:31:19,580 --> 00:31:17,669
in the theoretical physicists and even

595
00:31:22,489 --> 00:31:19,590
cosmologists the question of

596
00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:22,499
consciousness consciousness now comes up

597
00:31:28,849 --> 00:31:26,460
more than ever and what it is for you

598
00:31:32,629 --> 00:31:28,859
what is that definition what is

599
00:31:34,849 --> 00:31:32,639
consciousness I think there are two ways

600
00:31:37,940 --> 00:31:34,859
to look at it one is you know my

601
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:37,950
personal consciousness which is just

602
00:31:43,609 --> 00:31:40,320
like experience what is it like to be

603
00:31:46,369 --> 00:31:43,619
alive what is it like to be Jimmy church

604
00:31:49,149 --> 00:31:46,379
or Jeffrey Mishlove or each and every

605
00:31:51,379 --> 00:31:49,159
one of your listeners so there's that

606
00:31:54,169 --> 00:31:51,389
individual consciousness but then

607
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:54,179
there's also this larger consciousness

608
00:31:59,930 --> 00:31:56,970
you might say it's like a universal

609
00:32:03,999 --> 00:31:59,940
consciousness and in which we're all

610
00:32:08,029 --> 00:32:04,009
embedded and that's that's very

611
00:32:10,879 --> 00:32:08,039
mysterious you know some people would

612
00:32:13,940 --> 00:32:10,889
say that everything exists within that

613
00:32:16,339 --> 00:32:13,950
universal consciousness but it's very

614
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:16,349
hard to define some people would call it

615
00:32:22,239 --> 00:32:19,289
God and other people might just say it's

616
00:32:27,229 --> 00:32:22,249
you know it's just some kind of a

617
00:32:30,919 --> 00:32:27,239
principle in nature how do you how do

618
00:32:32,419 --> 00:32:30,929
you how do you resolve because I've been

619
00:32:35,869 --> 00:32:32,429
trying to do this I've been trying to

620
00:32:39,349 --> 00:32:35,879
figure this out how do you resolve you

621
00:32:42,859 --> 00:32:39,359
know atoms and and particles and things

622
00:32:45,859 --> 00:32:42,869
that don't have consciousness suddenly

623
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:45,869
assemble into these beautiful beings

624
00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:48,960
that we call us where we can laugh and

625
00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:51,230
think and ponder the

626
00:32:55,870 --> 00:32:53,870
a transition that happens there we go

627
00:32:59,260 --> 00:32:55,880
from something that doesn't have a brain

628
00:33:01,150 --> 00:32:59,270
and it assembles into this and suddenly

629
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:01,160
we have consciousness where does that

630
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:03,890
transition happen when you're talking

631
00:33:09,370 --> 00:33:06,110
about the classic mind-body problem

632
00:33:12,430 --> 00:33:09,380
which has been an issue for philosophers

633
00:33:16,810 --> 00:33:12,440
for centuries but it's the way you

634
00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:16,820
phrased the question in has certain

635
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:18,950
assumptions embedded in it like that

636
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:21,679
matter isn't conscious at all and that

637
00:33:28,780 --> 00:33:24,290
that somehow consciousness evolves out

638
00:33:32,289 --> 00:33:28,790
of this inner dead matter it could be

639
00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:32,299
the other way around completely for all

640
00:33:38,860 --> 00:33:34,760
we know many great philosophers have

641
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:38,870
have suggested that if if you start with

642
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:41,690
what what we know everything we know is

643
00:33:47,230 --> 00:33:44,090
because we're conscious we don't know

644
00:33:49,450 --> 00:33:47,240
anything except that we're conscious of

645
00:33:52,539 --> 00:33:49,460
it so maybe consciousness came first

646
00:33:55,390 --> 00:33:52,549
which is the you know the basis of many

647
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:55,400
religious traditions and Asian

648
00:34:01,270 --> 00:33:59,360
philosophies particularly Vedanta for

649
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:01,280
example they would suggest that

650
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:03,919
consciousness came first and then

651
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:07,250
everything we think of as you know the

652
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:09,530
physical universe emerged out of

653
00:34:19,330 --> 00:34:13,760
consciousness so it's not necessarily

654
00:34:23,710 --> 00:34:19,340
just inert and dead at all is is is the

655
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:23,720
is the universe full of consciousness

656
00:34:30,879 --> 00:34:26,570
and I mean it like this when we look at

657
00:34:33,609 --> 00:34:30,889
the numbers of people that have lived

658
00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:33,619
and died in the history of this planet

659
00:34:38,859 --> 00:34:36,230
and it's it's a it's an astronomically

660
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:38,869
large number there are seven billion

661
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:41,330
people on this planet today so there's

662
00:34:47,290 --> 00:34:43,850
extra consciousness out there somewhere

663
00:34:49,570 --> 00:34:47,300
that hasn't reincarnated back into

664
00:34:53,290 --> 00:34:49,580
another body if you want to look at it

665
00:34:55,149 --> 00:34:53,300
that way right and to make matters even

666
00:34:59,980 --> 00:34:55,159
more complicated there are probably

667
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:59,990
trillions of other planets and okay yeah

668
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:01,760
I like the way that you're thinking I

669
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:04,510
was going to go there earlier

670
00:35:12,270 --> 00:35:09,760
that must be very exciting for you to

671
00:35:16,740 --> 00:35:12,280
see this development happen in science

672
00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:16,750
we're not very long ago just go back to

673
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:19,990
1995 there was the first exoplanet was

674
00:35:24,930 --> 00:35:22,810
discovered and we were wondering how

675
00:35:28,050 --> 00:35:24,940
many planets could there be out there

676
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:28,060
where today the discussion is in the

677
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:31,450
trillions in our own Milky Way and that

678
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:33,760
does change that does change the big

679
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:37,690
picture doesn't it yeah yeah I mean the

680
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:41,200
universe is very likely full of I mean

681
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:43,510
there could be billions and billions of

682
00:35:50,099 --> 00:35:46,240
galaxies and each galaxy has billions

683
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:50,109
and millions of stars and each star may

684
00:35:54,990 --> 00:35:52,240
have many planets it seems normal now

685
00:35:57,390 --> 00:35:55,000
for that stars do have planets around

686
00:35:59,640 --> 00:35:57,400
them and so surely there's there's

687
00:36:03,420 --> 00:35:59,650
conscious life throughout the universe

688
00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:03,430
but but whether it's correct to say that

689
00:36:09,930 --> 00:36:07,000
a consciousness exists in the universe

690
00:36:13,470 --> 00:36:09,940
or the universe exists within

691
00:36:15,839 --> 00:36:13,480
consciousness I don't think that

692
00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:15,849
question has been resolved at all or

693
00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:18,609
there are very intelligent thinkers

694
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:21,220
philosophers and on all sides of this

695
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:25,569
issue and Brian Greene who I just think

696
00:36:31,010 --> 00:36:27,369
is a brilliant physicist but not only

697
00:36:35,099 --> 00:36:31,020
that in his work in string theory but he

698
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:35,109
contemplates these subjects and he

699
00:36:40,829 --> 00:36:37,510
approaches them he's a great orator he's

700
00:36:43,319 --> 00:36:40,839
able to get those complex math equations

701
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:43,329
into something that we understand and he

702
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:46,569
can explain it and he says that one of

703
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:48,970
the things that that he spends his time

704
00:36:56,250 --> 00:36:53,170
on thinking about is just this where

705
00:36:59,849 --> 00:36:56,260
this transition happens and what what

706
00:37:03,990 --> 00:36:59,859
came first and that that he needs to get

707
00:37:06,450 --> 00:37:04,000
this answered and it's where science and

708
00:37:08,130 --> 00:37:06,460
in our community are starting to overlap

709
00:37:11,309 --> 00:37:08,140
these days I think that's where it's

710
00:37:13,950 --> 00:37:11,319
going and you know many of the great

711
00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:13,960
founders of quantum physics people like

712
00:37:20,970 --> 00:37:17,740
Max Planck and Irvin Schrodinger

713
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:20,980
felt that consciousness was fundamental

714
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:22,770
that you can't get underneath

715
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:25,630
consciousness it's the reality doesn't

716
00:37:32,070 --> 00:37:28,690
start with atoms and molecules or quarks

717
00:37:33,890 --> 00:37:32,080
it starts with consciousness and when we

718
00:37:37,980 --> 00:37:33,900
when we start to dive into this

719
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:37,990
certainly with ESP and telekinesis and

720
00:37:44,730 --> 00:37:41,530
parapsychology are we now starting to

721
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:44,740
get into the realm of entanglement and

722
00:37:50,190 --> 00:37:48,730
that's where these foundations are when

723
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:50,200
it when it comes to the power of the

724
00:37:55,170 --> 00:37:51,970
mind

725
00:37:57,270 --> 00:37:55,180
you know back in 1975 when I published

726
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:57,280
my first book the roots of consciousness

727
00:38:03,000 --> 00:37:59,680
that we had a chapter on physics and

728
00:38:05,370 --> 00:38:03,010
consciousness it was written for me by a

729
00:38:07,770 --> 00:38:05,380
physicist back then a fellow you may

730
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:07,780
have heard of named Jack Sarfati who

731
00:38:17,220 --> 00:38:13,090
claimed to have had UFO contacts and is

732
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:17,230
is that if we if we start to resolve

733
00:38:22,290 --> 00:38:19,690
some of these things like like

734
00:38:28,110 --> 00:38:22,300
entanglement did the dominoes start to

735
00:38:31,740 --> 00:38:28,120
fall well you know that metaphor the

736
00:38:34,170 --> 00:38:31,750
dominoes starting to fall sort of

737
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:34,180
implies that there's a mechanism that

738
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:36,610
one Domino pushes the next one pushes

739
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:40,450
the next one pushes the next one and I'm

740
00:38:45,390 --> 00:38:42,730
kind of inclined to think Jimmy that

741
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:45,400
that ultimately the universe doesn't

742
00:38:51,420 --> 00:38:47,890
operate like a mechanism like a great

743
00:38:57,690 --> 00:38:51,430
big machine I think the universe

744
00:38:59,820 --> 00:38:57,700
probably operates more like a well one

745
00:39:04,470 --> 00:38:59,830
physicists said it's more like a great

746
00:39:08,450 --> 00:39:04,480
story than a great machine and and that

747
00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:08,460
that could be when we talk about

748
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:13,510
consciousness the afterlife other realms

749
00:39:20,190 --> 00:39:17,530
that these are all parts of a reality

750
00:39:25,290 --> 00:39:20,200
that that is rooted in science and if

751
00:39:27,330 --> 00:39:25,300
one thing is proven then all our all of

752
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:27,340
our great questions answered at that

753
00:39:32,170 --> 00:39:28,690
point because it's all going to be

754
00:39:39,170 --> 00:39:35,780
yeah at the end of time make me it'll

755
00:39:42,020 --> 00:39:39,180
all make well and and see this is the

756
00:39:43,130 --> 00:39:42,030
thing you've been asking and this is

757
00:39:45,530 --> 00:39:43,140
what's great about this conversation

758
00:39:49,070 --> 00:39:45,540
that we're having you've been asking

759
00:39:50,210 --> 00:39:49,080
these same questions of these great

760
00:39:51,860 --> 00:39:50,220
guests of yours

761
00:39:54,590 --> 00:39:51,870
you've been asking the same questions

762
00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:54,600
and now the tables have turned a little

763
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:56,790
bit I'm asking these questions of you

764
00:40:05,260 --> 00:40:01,200
and do you feel that you are getting

765
00:40:09,020 --> 00:40:05,270
closer because of what you have learned

766
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:09,030
not really no I don't necessarily feel

767
00:40:14,510 --> 00:40:11,250
like I'm getting closer ironically you

768
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:14,520
know it's like sure my brain is filled

769
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:17,690
with many many many more ideas and

770
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:20,850
concepts and knowledge but I don't know

771
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:23,130
that having more knowledge means that

772
00:40:30,310 --> 00:40:25,170
you're really closer to the ultimate

773
00:40:34,610 --> 00:40:30,320
answers it's almost like for me Jimmy

774
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:34,620
it's part of a conversation that we're

775
00:40:39,830 --> 00:40:37,800
having and maybe ten thousand years from

776
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:39,840
now I'll run into you a different it

777
00:40:44,060 --> 00:40:42,000
will pick up the same conversation where

778
00:40:49,550 --> 00:40:44,070
we leave off and find out that we've

779
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:49,560
always been wrong but the conversation

780
00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:53,910
itself is is the message the the

781
00:41:01,420 --> 00:40:56,910
converse I want to talk about Terence

782
00:41:05,380 --> 00:41:01,430
Mckenna for a second your conversation I

783
00:41:09,170 --> 00:41:05,390
can say that plural with Terence Mckenna

784
00:41:12,530 --> 00:41:09,180
he was closer to the mark than I and I

785
00:41:17,390 --> 00:41:12,540
think he even realized he was right on

786
00:41:21,020 --> 00:41:17,400
the brink of some breakout stuff and he

787
00:41:24,290 --> 00:41:21,030
tried to tell the world and today these

788
00:41:26,780 --> 00:41:24,300
conversations about ayahuasca and DMT

789
00:41:33,050 --> 00:41:26,790
and parallel worlds and connections to

790
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:33,060
two other spirit beings is is very

791
00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:35,250
important and we're starting to unlock

792
00:41:39,220 --> 00:41:37,740
that Terence was was onto something

793
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:39,230
wasn't he

794
00:41:45,730 --> 00:41:42,650
Oh Terence was amazing I loved how

795
00:41:49,780 --> 00:41:45,740
articulate he was he the words just

796
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:49,790
flowed out of his mouth and like poetry

797
00:41:55,210 --> 00:41:52,310
but you know I think he had a lot of

798
00:41:58,410 --> 00:41:55,220
ideas that were kind of wacky I loved

799
00:42:03,490 --> 00:41:58,420
them because they were very very

800
00:42:08,620 --> 00:42:03,500
stimulating but I don't know that that

801
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:08,630
he really got to you know ultimate

802
00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:11,599
answers if I was looking for ultimate

803
00:42:18,250 --> 00:42:14,089
answers I'd probably think more of

804
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:18,260
someone like Rob does well with with

805
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:21,170
Terence and going back to your

806
00:42:27,819 --> 00:42:23,930
conversations with him he was and you're

807
00:42:31,089 --> 00:42:27,829
right articulate is is is a definition

808
00:42:34,990 --> 00:42:31,099
for him he was able to speak about his

809
00:42:37,089 --> 00:42:35,000
experiences and what he was learning was

810
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:37,099
that because of the questions that you

811
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:40,490
were asking that you were able to pull

812
00:42:44,770 --> 00:42:42,890
that out of him and and I hope you

813
00:42:47,319 --> 00:42:44,780
appreciate what I'm saying here because

814
00:42:50,290 --> 00:42:47,329
he was a difficult interview for a lot

815
00:42:54,849 --> 00:42:50,300
of people but for you it was a it was a

816
00:42:58,660 --> 00:42:54,859
different kind of a setting I did you

817
00:43:00,940 --> 00:42:58,670
know I would have assumed that he was

818
00:43:06,910 --> 00:43:00,950
that way all the time I just figured the

819
00:43:09,069 --> 00:43:06,920
man is a genius but I have to admit I

820
00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:09,079
haven't probably listened to other

821
00:43:16,059 --> 00:43:13,430
interviews right right well and the the

822
00:43:21,130 --> 00:43:16,069
reason why I think it's so important is

823
00:43:23,410 --> 00:43:21,140
that on this show I have I think you

824
00:43:25,630 --> 00:43:23,420
know I've done probably close to 2,000

825
00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:25,640
interviews at this point right now a lot

826
00:43:31,420 --> 00:43:28,040
of shows have have accumulated and

827
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:31,430
there's an ebb and flow with researchers

828
00:43:38,620 --> 00:43:33,650
and you can see where trends are going

829
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:38,630
and ayahuasca has been brought up on

830
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:41,839
this show so many times and the the

831
00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:44,560
fascinating part about it is the

832
00:43:49,590 --> 00:43:47,030
similarities that I have from guest to

833
00:43:51,780 --> 00:43:49,600
guest and and what

834
00:43:53,850 --> 00:43:51,790
they are experiencing and they don't

835
00:43:56,070 --> 00:43:53,860
know each other right they they haven't

836
00:43:58,740 --> 00:43:56,080
listened to past interviews there's a

837
00:44:01,050 --> 00:43:58,750
consistency to the phenomenon that is

838
00:44:03,660 --> 00:44:01,060
there and I do believe that there are

839
00:44:07,170 --> 00:44:03,670
they are tapping I haven't done it by

840
00:44:12,060 --> 00:44:07,180
the way okay so I have I haven't done it

841
00:44:15,930 --> 00:44:12,070
but there is a reality to this parallel

842
00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:15,940
world that Terence was referencing back

843
00:44:21,060 --> 00:44:18,790
then and I think Sciences get should

844
00:44:23,310 --> 00:44:21,070
investigate what is happening here

845
00:44:27,150 --> 00:44:23,320
because I think that reality is a real

846
00:44:30,660 --> 00:44:27,160
one well I remember the very first time

847
00:44:34,170 --> 00:44:30,670
I used a psychedelic drug and I saw

848
00:44:35,730 --> 00:44:34,180
these wonderful visual images and you

849
00:44:37,710 --> 00:44:35,740
know when you're having that experience

850
00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:37,720
there's no doubt they're real because

851
00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:40,510
you're there experiencing it and whether

852
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:43,150
you want to call it a hallucination or a

853
00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:47,770
psychotic mimic or an alternative

854
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:52,060
reality it's a real experience and I I

855
00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:54,010
would agree with you it is very

856
00:45:01,950 --> 00:44:56,860
important to get to the essence of you

857
00:45:08,190 --> 00:45:01,960
know what's going on and how how is it

858
00:45:13,110 --> 00:45:08,200
possible that the chemistry of ayahuasca

859
00:45:19,050 --> 00:45:13,120
and other medicines that the chemistry

860
00:45:20,730 --> 00:45:19,060
was developed so long ago without the

861
00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:20,740
knowledge of chemistry that they were

862
00:45:25,470 --> 00:45:23,110
able to get the root of one plant and

863
00:45:29,940 --> 00:45:25,480
and and another plant get those to react

864
00:45:32,820 --> 00:45:29,950
in our body chemistry in our stomach to

865
00:45:36,510 --> 00:45:32,830
turn around and access these higher

866
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:36,520
dimensions did that information come

867
00:45:44,070 --> 00:45:40,210
from another consciousness and and was

868
00:45:46,110 --> 00:45:44,080
given to them to to you know get this

869
00:45:47,610 --> 00:45:46,120
magical combination I still don't

870
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:47,620
understand how that happened so many

871
00:45:54,270 --> 00:45:50,650
probably over a thousand years ago well

872
00:45:57,330 --> 00:45:54,280
if you talk to shamans they basically

873
00:46:00,930 --> 00:45:57,340
are pretty consistent in saying that the

874
00:46:03,090 --> 00:46:00,940
plant talks to them they listen to the

875
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:03,100
plants and the plants tell them what to

876
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:03,490
do

877
00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:05,890
well what came first it's the chicken or

878
00:46:21,020 --> 00:46:15,310
the egg and the the the other part of

879
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:21,030
this when when shamans are talking to

880
00:46:25,380 --> 00:46:23,050
something you know they're getting their

881
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:25,390
information however you want to look at

882
00:46:29,850 --> 00:46:27,250
it but they are getting it from

883
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:29,860
somewhere and the questions of

884
00:46:34,650 --> 00:46:31,930
entanglement for me come in and come

885
00:46:37,050 --> 00:46:34,660
into play and and consciousness outside

886
00:46:39,890 --> 00:46:37,060
in the electric universe that this is

887
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:39,900
something that has been going on forever

888
00:46:46,740 --> 00:46:43,330
it it has been and when you use the term

889
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:46,750
entanglement to me what entanglement

890
00:46:52,020 --> 00:46:50,170
really means is is very fundamental it

891
00:46:55,890 --> 00:46:52,030
means you know everybody goes through

892
00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:55,900
life with the idea that there's an

893
00:47:00,660 --> 00:46:58,810
inside of me and an outside and you know

894
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:00,670
there's an internal consciousness and

895
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,410
then there's the world out there and

896
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:04,960
what entanglement is saying is that

897
00:47:12,750 --> 00:47:09,090
that's an artificial distinction how so

898
00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:12,760
because everything is interconnected we

899
00:47:23,610 --> 00:47:17,710
the inside and the outside are all part

900
00:47:27,540 --> 00:47:23,620
of one single system when when we when

901
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:27,550
you refer it in that way I immediately

902
00:47:35,130 --> 00:47:32,650
go to a larger number of people that

903
00:47:38,460 --> 00:47:35,140
that make contact and have communication

904
00:47:42,540 --> 00:47:38,470
with offworld beings and they're getting

905
00:47:47,850 --> 00:47:42,550
that information coming through is that

906
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:47,860
is that what is happening well it might

907
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:50,050
be I'm certainly open to that

908
00:47:54,660 --> 00:47:52,240
possibility you know the work I did with

909
00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:54,670
Ted oh and seem very dramatic he said he

910
00:48:00,570 --> 00:47:58,330
was in touch with invisible space aliens

911
00:48:04,410 --> 00:48:00,580
he called them the space intelligences

912
00:48:07,380 --> 00:48:04,420
and and he would say they gave him the

913
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:07,390
ability to produce phenomena that he

914
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:11,410
could produce regularly with with good

915
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:13,870
reliability roughly two-thirds of the

916
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:16,570
time he said he would produce some

917
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:17,359
demonstrate

918
00:48:23,739 --> 00:48:19,609
they worked out the way he said they

919
00:48:28,210 --> 00:48:23,749
would so I've seen it happen but I have

920
00:48:30,609 --> 00:48:28,220
to say this that Ted Owens and it was a

921
00:48:33,370 --> 00:48:30,619
rare person of all the people who claim

922
00:48:37,420 --> 00:48:33,380
that they're channeling alien

923
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:37,430
consciousness very few of them produced

924
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:40,880
demonstrations on a regular basis the

925
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:44,690
way Ted Owens was able to do and so so

926
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:46,730
there's always the risk that you know

927
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:51,130
people also have everybody has I think a

928
00:48:58,630 --> 00:48:55,839
creative mind and probably most people

929
00:49:00,450 --> 00:48:58,640
at least that they're unconscious level

930
00:49:03,940 --> 00:49:00,460
are capable of writing science fiction

931
00:49:09,249 --> 00:49:03,950
stories so a lot of what people call

932
00:49:13,329 --> 00:49:09,259
alien communications could well be a

933
00:49:17,140 --> 00:49:13,339
fantasy or a product of their own inner

934
00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:17,150
creativity what Ted Owens case I have to

935
00:49:23,380 --> 00:49:19,609
say it was more than that yes exactly

936
00:49:25,180 --> 00:49:23,390
and when I have done the same thing that

937
00:49:26,799 --> 00:49:25,190
you have done I've gone out I've done

938
00:49:29,470 --> 00:49:26,809
the summoning I've done the Night Watch

939
00:49:32,140 --> 00:49:29,480
and the sky watches and you know

940
00:49:33,729 --> 00:49:32,150
night-vision goggles I've seen some

941
00:49:38,049 --> 00:49:33,739
pretty amazing things that I can't

942
00:49:42,039 --> 00:49:38,059
explain and when we witness that is it

943
00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:42,049
is it manifesting or do do you think

944
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:44,569
that this is something much more

945
00:49:48,460 --> 00:49:46,160
physical and I know that you and Jacques

946
00:49:51,339 --> 00:49:48,470
Vallee had a pretty deep conversation

947
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:51,349
about this too as well but is is it is

948
00:49:56,789 --> 00:49:54,640
it physical or is it something else more

949
00:49:59,650 --> 00:49:56,799
interdimensional including your

950
00:50:02,259 --> 00:49:59,660
experiences I think it's much more than

951
00:50:05,049 --> 00:50:02,269
physical I think if we look at physical

952
00:50:07,539 --> 00:50:05,059
science today even cutting-edge physical

953
00:50:10,029 --> 00:50:07,549
science such as brian greene who you

954
00:50:13,019 --> 00:50:10,039
spoke of earlier i don't think they go

955
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:13,029
quite far enough i think Jacques Vallee

956
00:50:21,220 --> 00:50:17,450
has a deeper vision of these things I

957
00:50:26,130 --> 00:50:21,230
mean what we call physical maybe just

958
00:50:28,660 --> 00:50:26,140
the tiniest portion of reality itself

959
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:28,670
let me give you an example what sure

960
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:30,810
when Ted Owen said he would produce

961
00:50:37,340 --> 00:50:33,410
the UFO you didn't need night goggles

962
00:50:40,220 --> 00:50:37,350
necessarily in in the sky to see them he

963
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:40,230
would on one occasion he told me I'm

964
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:42,930
gonna produce a UFO and it's going to be

965
00:50:47,090 --> 00:50:44,970
seen by hundreds of people it'll be

966
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:47,100
photographed in a photograph of it will

967
00:50:51,860 --> 00:50:49,770
be published in the front page of one of

968
00:50:54,740 --> 00:50:51,870
your local newspapers in the San

969
00:50:59,210 --> 00:50:54,750
Francisco Bay Area and that happened

970
00:51:01,790 --> 00:50:59,220
three days later and what do you do with

971
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:01,800
that you personally I mean what do you

972
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:03,450
do you know it was very difficult

973
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:05,850
because I was a graduate student at the

974
00:51:11,890 --> 00:51:08,960
time and I reported it to my professors

975
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:11,900
and one of them a very prominent

976
00:51:17,780 --> 00:51:14,160
parapsychologists immediately resigned

977
00:51:22,010 --> 00:51:17,790
from my doctoral committee when he heard

978
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:22,020
that this had occurred and it did he did

979
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:25,200
he resign because the phenomenon was

980
00:51:32,090 --> 00:51:27,450
real or that he didn't want to be

981
00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:32,100
associated with it I suspect it was a

982
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:36,720
second yeah but that's the battle that

983
00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:39,210
we fight right there that's the battle

984
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:43,470
that we fight the going back to Jacques

985
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:48,810
de la for a second you and Jacques had a

986
00:51:55,010 --> 00:51:52,800
conversation about things in 1986 that I

987
00:51:57,950 --> 00:51:55,020
thought was pretty groundbreaking at the

988
00:52:00,560 --> 00:51:57,960
time but it was also a solid vision of

989
00:52:03,370 --> 00:52:00,570
the future here we are in 2019 and those

990
00:52:07,340 --> 00:52:03,380
things that Jacque was talking about

991
00:52:14,170 --> 00:52:07,350
were very solid do you think that Jacque

992
00:52:17,720 --> 00:52:14,180
knows more than he is actually revealing

993
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:17,730
well I'm sure he knows a lot Jacque is a

994
00:52:27,740 --> 00:52:22,370
very very smart man a very deep thinker

995
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:27,750
about things and he's also a wise person

996
00:52:32,210 --> 00:52:29,610
he's in fact he's been a venture

997
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:32,220
capitalist he understands business and

998
00:52:39,860 --> 00:52:36,210
he understands society very well so it's

999
00:52:41,730 --> 00:52:39,870
quite possible that he like Carl Jung or

1000
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:41,740
like many other

1001
00:52:47,700 --> 00:52:44,770
thinkers realizes that people are only

1002
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:47,710
capable of absorbing so much and it does

1003
00:52:52,650 --> 00:52:50,290
no good to try and give people

1004
00:52:55,620 --> 00:52:52,660
information that they're not ready to

1005
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:55,630
receive what do we do I want to stay on

1006
00:52:59,700 --> 00:52:57,490
the subject if you don't mind I'm

1007
00:53:04,310 --> 00:52:59,710
looking at the clock we can pick up when

1008
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:04,320
we come back but when you have so many

1009
00:53:10,859 --> 00:53:08,890
witnesses and experiencers and abductees

1010
00:53:14,750 --> 00:53:10,869
by which the numbers are probably in the

1011
00:53:18,510 --> 00:53:14,760
millions sharing these experiences of

1012
00:53:21,660 --> 00:53:18,520
abduction and contact is this part of

1013
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:21,670
reality or is this something else going

1014
00:53:30,030 --> 00:53:23,890
on in mass consciousness where they're

1015
00:53:35,060 --> 00:53:30,040
sharing these experiences oh that's an

1016
00:53:40,650 --> 00:53:38,070
what we're really encountering in a way

1017
00:53:43,050 --> 00:53:40,660
is ourselves because as I say the inside

1018
00:53:46,050 --> 00:53:43,060
and the outside are not separate from

1019
00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:46,060
each other and we have a lot to learn

1020
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:52,480
about the depths of who we are yeah yeah

1021
00:54:00,180 --> 00:53:56,410
yeah yeah and everybody can't be crazy

1022
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:00,190
right it can't be that well let's hope

1023
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:04,330
not it can't be some crazy psychosis but

1024
00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:06,010
there's got to be something else to the

1025
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:07,270
phenomenon there has to be an

1026
00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:10,089
explanation I'm sure there is an

1027
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:13,260
explanation and I'm sure it's not

1028
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:17,680
psychosis but I think ultimately it's

1029
00:54:25,140 --> 00:54:23,290
more about who I mean see if I can put

1030
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:25,150
this into the right language for you

1031
00:54:30,990 --> 00:54:28,510
it's not an explanation that we are

1032
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:31,000
necessarily going to put into words and

1033
00:54:37,710 --> 00:54:34,570
language even mathematics and the

1034
00:54:40,740 --> 00:54:37,720
language of science it's more that when

1035
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:40,750
we understand what's really going on we

1036
00:54:46,829 --> 00:54:43,599
will become larger beings and that will

1037
00:54:50,849 --> 00:54:46,839
be the answer and how close how close

1038
00:54:53,220 --> 00:54:50,859
are we I I said this last week on the

1039
00:54:54,970 --> 00:54:53,230
air I said I think we're we're like

1040
00:54:57,099 --> 00:54:54,980
seniors in the heist

1041
00:54:59,380 --> 00:54:57,109
that are about to graduate that's where

1042
00:55:03,720 --> 00:54:59,390
we are in our maturity we haven't gone

1043
00:55:07,329 --> 00:55:03,730
past that yet my mentor Arthur young

1044
00:55:09,550 --> 00:55:07,339
developed a wonderful cosmology he wrote

1045
00:55:11,170 --> 00:55:09,560
about it in a book called the root not

1046
00:55:14,410 --> 00:55:11,180
the roots of consciousness that's my

1047
00:55:17,710 --> 00:55:14,420
book his book was the reflexive universe

1048
00:55:20,980 --> 00:55:17,720
and and he had a periodic table of

1049
00:55:23,890 --> 00:55:20,990
everything and he would say that modern

1050
00:55:27,460 --> 00:55:23,900
human beings such as ourselves stand in

1051
00:55:33,870 --> 00:55:27,470
relationship to the potential of what we

1052
00:55:36,970 --> 00:55:33,880
can be roughly parallel to where a clam

1053
00:55:40,180 --> 00:55:36,980
would be in relationship to the entire

1054
00:55:41,530 --> 00:55:40,190
animal kingdom let's take a break right

1055
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:41,540
here when we come back I want to talk

1056
00:55:47,890 --> 00:55:45,290
some more about Arthur Young absolutely

1057
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:47,900
fascinating individual on on every

1058
00:55:52,180 --> 00:55:50,570
measure and let's do that let's take our

1059
00:55:54,430 --> 00:55:52,190
break right here this is fade to black

1060
00:55:56,589 --> 00:55:54,440
I'm your host Jimmy Church our guest

1061
00:55:58,900 --> 00:55:56,599
tonight Jeffrey Mitchell oh this is fade

1062
00:56:04,340 --> 00:55:58,910
to black on the GameChanger Network and

1063
00:56:41,959 --> 00:56:38,960
[Music]

1064
00:56:44,249 --> 00:56:41,969
[Applause]

1065
00:56:45,809 --> 00:56:44,259
welcome back fade to black I am your

1066
00:56:49,019 --> 00:56:45,819
host Jimmy Church tonight our guest

1067
00:56:50,789 --> 00:56:49,029
Jeffrey Mitchell of tomorrow night ed

1068
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:50,799
nightingale is here we're gonna be

1069
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:53,890
talking about Leonardo da Vinci and the

1070
00:56:58,199 --> 00:56:56,650
Giza template Thursday night is another

1071
00:57:00,449 --> 00:56:58,209
fader night with open lines all night

1072
00:57:02,670 --> 00:57:00,459
long you can get to Geoffrey's website

1073
00:57:05,489 --> 00:57:02,680
thinking aloud calm the links are over

1074
00:57:08,819 --> 00:57:05,499
at a 2 meter radio calm as well as new

1075
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:08,829
thinking aloud Jeffrey's new YouTube

1076
00:57:14,219 --> 00:57:12,130
channel and the new version of thinking

1077
00:57:19,769 --> 00:57:14,229
aloud I want to want to go back to

1078
00:57:21,239 --> 00:57:19,779
Arthur M young and the relationship and

1079
00:57:24,239 --> 00:57:21,249
the interviews that you have done with

1080
00:57:28,380 --> 00:57:24,249
him over the years has just been

1081
00:57:33,689 --> 00:57:28,390
incredible but there is also the Arthur

1082
00:57:35,609 --> 00:57:33,699
Young and the seance and and the 9 did

1083
00:57:39,059 --> 00:57:35,619
you have conversations with Arthur about

1084
00:57:45,410 --> 00:57:39,069
that yeah we discussed it a few times

1085
00:57:51,029 --> 00:57:45,420
you can't stop there Geoffrey well

1086
00:57:53,459 --> 00:57:51,039
Arthur was involved with Andre apart who

1087
00:57:55,709 --> 00:57:53,469
was the person who wrote the book about

1088
00:57:59,150 --> 00:57:55,719
Erie Geller and really introduced her

1089
00:58:02,009 --> 00:57:59,160
regular to the scientific world but I

1090
00:58:04,799 --> 00:58:02,019
mean we could talk about Andrea for a

1091
00:58:08,699 --> 00:58:04,809
long absolutely wrote a book called the

1092
00:58:10,469 --> 00:58:08,709
sacred mushroom and about psychedelic

1093
00:58:13,609 --> 00:58:10,479
mushrooms but it was published I think

1094
00:58:15,929 --> 00:58:13,619
back in about 1960 but he had an

1095
00:58:19,380 --> 00:58:15,939
organization called the round table

1096
00:58:23,370 --> 00:58:19,390
Foundation as I recall and it was based

1097
00:58:25,919 --> 00:58:23,380
in Maine and Arthur Young who would you

1098
00:58:28,199 --> 00:58:25,929
know become wealthy and famous by

1099
00:58:31,939 --> 00:58:28,209
inventing the first commercially

1100
00:58:36,089 --> 00:58:31,949
licensed helicopter the Bell Helicopter

1101
00:58:41,359 --> 00:58:36,099
was very interested in anything exotic

1102
00:58:43,620 --> 00:58:41,369
he he loved ideas that people found

1103
00:58:45,959 --> 00:58:43,630
outrageous and offensive the more

1104
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:45,969
outrageous it was the more he liked it

1105
00:58:54,749 --> 00:58:49,599
so he was into astrology and alchemy and

1106
00:58:59,249 --> 00:58:54,759
UFOs and these these things and he

1107
00:59:03,529 --> 00:58:59,259
helped finance all kinds of exotic forms

1108
00:59:06,569 --> 00:59:03,539
of research so so he was part of the

1109
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:06,579
sessions that were held at the

1110
00:59:11,849 --> 00:59:09,089
roundtable foundation which often

1111
00:59:16,549 --> 00:59:11,859
involved the communication with entities

1112
00:59:20,099 --> 00:59:16,559
that refer to themselves as the nine and

1113
00:59:22,429 --> 00:59:20,109
in in fact I'll tell you a little known

1114
00:59:25,589 --> 00:59:22,439
story about all of that there was a

1115
00:59:30,650 --> 00:59:25,599
famous book published in the as I recall

1116
00:59:32,999 --> 00:59:30,660
in the 1950s by Leon Festinger who was a

1117
00:59:36,299 --> 00:59:33,009
sociologist and the name of the book was

1118
00:59:41,519 --> 00:59:36,309
when prophecy fails and it was a study

1119
00:59:43,319 --> 00:59:41,529
of a UFO cult based in Minnesota and in

1120
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:43,329
which they were predicting the end of

1121
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:45,910
the world and and so Festinger as a

1122
00:59:52,859 --> 00:59:48,130
sociologist was interested in what

1123
00:59:54,959 --> 00:59:52,869
happens when the predictions made didn't

1124
00:59:56,699 --> 00:59:54,969
come true the world didn't end on the

1125
00:59:58,679 --> 00:59:56,709
day that this UFO cult

1126
01:00:00,929 --> 00:59:58,689
said it would so he began to look at

1127
01:00:03,539 --> 01:00:00,939
well what did these cult members do and

1128
01:00:05,759 --> 01:00:03,549
he noted many of them said you know they

1129
01:00:09,809 --> 01:00:05,769
found ways of justifying that their

1130
01:00:12,719 --> 01:00:09,819
prophet was real well but what wasn't

1131
01:00:15,839 --> 01:00:12,729
known is because he didn't met published

1132
01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:15,849
names in that book that this same UFO

1133
01:00:21,630 --> 01:00:18,640
cult and based in Minneapolis as I

1134
01:00:26,130 --> 01:00:21,640
recall was in contact with aundrea

1135
01:00:28,589 --> 01:00:26,140
Paresh in Maine and and the contact was

1136
01:00:30,900 --> 01:00:28,599
based on synchronicities and you know

1137
01:00:33,449 --> 01:00:30,910
who Irish was getting messages to show

1138
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:33,459
up at certain locations and meet these

1139
01:00:41,939 --> 01:00:38,410
people also who Harwich was getting

1140
01:00:45,509 --> 01:00:41,949
messages that that he had to travel to

1141
01:00:47,609 --> 01:00:45,519
to various exotic locations just get on

1142
01:00:52,829 --> 01:00:47,619
an airplane show up at the airport at a

1143
01:00:55,140 --> 01:00:52,839
certain day in time in order to it's

1144
01:00:57,029 --> 01:00:55,150
hard to say exactly what he did but you

1145
01:00:57,510 --> 01:00:57,039
know it was like he was being guided by

1146
01:01:01,070 --> 01:00:57,520
the

1147
01:01:04,020 --> 01:01:01,080
Denine and various mediums were

1148
01:01:06,260 --> 01:01:04,030
communicating in trance States I have to

1149
01:01:09,660 --> 01:01:06,270
say at the end of the day a lot of it

1150
01:01:13,020 --> 01:01:09,670
amounted to nothing at all at least

1151
01:01:15,090 --> 01:01:13,030
nothing tangible I think these people

1152
01:01:17,850 --> 01:01:15,100
thought that they were they were going

1153
01:01:21,180 --> 01:01:17,860
to do you know marvelous things and and

1154
01:01:24,690 --> 01:01:21,190
surely Andre of who was a marvelous

1155
01:01:27,930 --> 01:01:24,700
person he did many things in his life

1156
01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:27,940
but now that I think back about it is

1157
01:01:37,770 --> 01:01:34,150
his life ended rather sadly he had the

1158
01:01:40,580 --> 01:01:37,780
ability to surround himself with with a

1159
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:40,590
group of pretty magical characters and

1160
01:01:46,550 --> 01:01:42,970
that was the other thing I can only

1161
01:01:50,010 --> 01:01:46,560
imagine how strong as a personality was

1162
01:01:52,140 --> 01:01:50,020
yeah he was a wonderful person he was

1163
01:01:56,970 --> 01:01:52,150
very helpful and inspirational to me

1164
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:56,980
early in my career and Arthur Young who

1165
01:02:03,630 --> 01:01:59,920
I lived with for a period of time and

1166
01:02:06,780 --> 01:02:03,640
Berkeley back in the early 1970s was

1167
01:02:12,050 --> 01:02:06,790
very close to him so what happened at

1168
01:02:14,370 --> 01:02:12,060
the the well now very famous seance

1169
01:02:16,470 --> 01:02:14,380
there was a you know a pretty strong

1170
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:16,480
group of people that were there

1171
01:02:20,970 --> 01:02:18,730
including Arthur's wife Ruth I

1172
01:02:23,310 --> 01:02:20,980
understand was there too as well and

1173
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:23,320
they were gonna do the seance and

1174
01:02:30,140 --> 01:02:25,450
communicate with the nine well let's

1175
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:30,150
start there who were the nine well I

1176
01:02:36,630 --> 01:02:33,970
can't say that I ever had a clear

1177
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:36,640
understanding of that is it one entity

1178
01:02:43,860 --> 01:02:39,930
that called itself the nine or was it a

1179
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:43,870
collective was this like the Galactic

1180
01:02:50,010 --> 01:02:47,290
Council or something of that sort it was

1181
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:50,020
it was never clear to me and I don't

1182
01:02:55,260 --> 01:02:52,450
think actually the you know Arthur

1183
01:02:57,480 --> 01:02:55,270
didn't stick with that he moved on to

1184
01:02:59,310 --> 01:02:57,490
other things it was at the end of the

1185
01:03:01,620 --> 01:02:59,320
day much more important to him to

1186
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:01,630
develop his own theoretical work than

1187
01:03:07,230 --> 01:03:04,570
than to continue to participate in in

1188
01:03:08,670 --> 01:03:07,240
this activity yeah did he did he feel

1189
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:08,680
that the

1190
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:14,610
was a real communication with this

1191
01:03:19,140 --> 01:03:17,200
collection of beings that are off planet

1192
01:03:22,430 --> 01:03:19,150
you know known as the nine did did he

1193
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:22,440
think that that actually went down I

1194
01:03:31,860 --> 01:03:25,810
think he was very open to that

1195
01:03:34,500 --> 01:03:31,870
possibility I I know at one time he he

1196
01:03:37,380 --> 01:03:34,510
said when I knew him he was you know

1197
01:03:43,460 --> 01:03:37,390
quite elderly I met him when he was I

1198
01:03:52,740 --> 01:03:48,300
was about 1995 as I recall and he died

1199
01:04:02,370 --> 01:03:52,750
so he was about 90 so I knew him for

1200
01:04:04,370 --> 01:04:02,380
about 20 years and during that time I he

1201
01:04:07,710 --> 01:04:04,380
would tell me that if he could do things

1202
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:07,720
over again and he would like to build

1203
01:04:13,020 --> 01:04:10,450
UFOs himself he's a nominee you know

1204
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:13,030
invented the helicopters he thought the

1205
01:04:17,370 --> 01:04:15,130
next thing would be to build space

1206
01:04:20,190 --> 01:04:17,380
vehicles he wished that he was younger

1207
01:04:22,650 --> 01:04:20,200
and could do that so I think he took it

1208
01:04:24,870 --> 01:04:22,660
seriously but I don't think he felt it

1209
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:24,880
was the most important thing he was

1210
01:04:30,780 --> 01:04:27,970
doing what and and speaking about

1211
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:30,790
construction of UFOs going back to how

1212
01:04:37,350 --> 01:04:34,690
put off and an SR I how was it haleh's

1213
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:37,360
in the news lately I hate what he's got

1214
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:43,690
these metamaterials the claims about

1215
01:04:48,890 --> 01:04:46,240
where they came from and and what they

1216
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:48,900
may or may not do are pretty sensational

1217
01:04:57,900 --> 01:04:54,210
but now the US Army is involved and and

1218
01:05:02,790 --> 01:04:57,910
the possibility that they may be not

1219
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:02,800
only off planet but these materials may

1220
01:05:07,710 --> 01:05:05,050
be used here and there's something to

1221
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:07,720
take advantage of what do you think is

1222
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:09,490
was going on what do you think is

1223
01:05:19,230 --> 01:05:12,910
actually going on I honestly don't know

1224
01:05:21,140 --> 01:05:19,240
I I haven't kept up with that I have

1225
01:05:23,839 --> 01:05:21,150
heard the same rumors

1226
01:05:27,799 --> 01:05:23,849
that you're describing but but I don't

1227
01:05:35,660 --> 01:05:27,809
have any hard core information about

1228
01:05:39,529 --> 01:05:35,670
that I'm sorry yeah well I can't really

1229
01:05:42,019 --> 01:05:39,539
comment intelligently well when we when

1230
01:05:45,380 --> 01:05:42,029
we get to those parts of things you know

1231
01:05:47,990 --> 01:05:45,390
crashed retrievals of you know of alien

1232
01:05:50,900 --> 01:05:48,000
craft and what the government may be in

1233
01:05:53,990 --> 01:05:50,910
possession of and that we've got

1234
01:05:57,680 --> 01:05:54,000
evidence you know actual physical

1235
01:06:01,690 --> 01:05:57,690
evidence and and these meta materials um

1236
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:01,700
hal is a very smart guy and he knows

1237
01:06:07,339 --> 01:06:05,010
what he is doing and that's that's the

1238
01:06:09,799 --> 01:06:07,349
part of this that i think that the

1239
01:06:12,710 --> 01:06:09,809
community and the news and the media is

1240
01:06:15,109 --> 01:06:12,720
grabbing hold of that of hal is involved

1241
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:15,119
and there must be something to this and

1242
01:06:21,279 --> 01:06:18,240
now the US army is going to apply their

1243
01:06:24,349 --> 01:06:21,289
laboratories to these materials that Hal

1244
01:06:26,839 --> 01:06:24,359
has been researching for years it seems

1245
01:06:29,180 --> 01:06:26,849
to be something is about to break well

1246
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:29,190
maybe so but you know to my knowledge

1247
01:06:35,349 --> 01:06:32,250
there have has hasn't yet been any

1248
01:06:39,230 --> 01:06:35,359
public pronouncements from Hale about

1249
01:06:44,180 --> 01:06:39,240
what he has yeah it's a it's very

1250
01:06:46,460 --> 01:06:44,190
interesting to me and to have the s RI

1251
01:06:49,339 --> 01:06:46,470
and this is there's another part to this

1252
01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:49,349
too that I think is about to break and

1253
01:06:57,049 --> 01:06:53,520
that is with remote viewing what how and

1254
01:07:01,480 --> 01:06:57,059
everybody else in Russell has been

1255
01:07:04,339 --> 01:07:01,490
working on that this part of

1256
01:07:07,609 --> 01:07:04,349
parapsychology and remote viewing is a

1257
01:07:10,450 --> 01:07:07,619
part of reality this isn't this isn't

1258
01:07:15,589 --> 01:07:10,460
science fiction anymore is it

1259
01:07:17,690 --> 01:07:15,599
what depends on who you talk to there

1260
01:07:21,859 --> 01:07:17,700
there are still people out there who

1261
01:07:24,010 --> 01:07:21,869
think it's all bunk and in fact they'll

1262
01:07:27,279 --> 01:07:24,020
tell you that the mainstream scientific

1263
01:07:31,279 --> 01:07:27,289
community has yet to accept any of it

1264
01:07:34,130 --> 01:07:31,289
however you and I both know that there

1265
01:07:37,609 --> 01:07:34,140
have been dozens if not hundreds

1266
01:07:40,519 --> 01:07:37,619
of reports by credible witnesses and I

1267
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:40,529
was first exposed to the idea of

1268
01:07:47,450 --> 01:07:45,450
physical materials back in the 1970s one

1269
01:07:50,930 --> 01:07:47,460
of my professors at the time James

1270
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,940
harder was the research director for an

1271
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:52,799
organization called the aerial

1272
01:07:59,390 --> 01:07:56,010
phenomenon research organization or afro

1273
01:08:04,579 --> 01:07:59,400
which back in those days was the leading

1274
01:08:09,470 --> 01:08:04,589
UFO research organization the sorry I I

1275
01:08:12,589 --> 01:08:09,480
sneezed I had to get my cough button but

1276
01:08:14,900 --> 01:08:12,599
and you gotta love live radio for stuff

1277
01:08:17,660 --> 01:08:14,910
like that it happens at the moment when

1278
01:08:20,660 --> 01:08:17,670
you don't need it to happen like like

1279
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:20,670
right now but we are moving forward in

1280
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:24,239
in this direction though and when the

1281
01:08:31,129 --> 01:08:28,770
the question of UFOs and contact and

1282
01:08:36,110 --> 01:08:31,139
offworld contact and what the government

1283
01:08:40,490 --> 01:08:36,120
knows versus what witnesses and yourself

1284
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:40,500
and myself how close are we going to be

1285
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:46,290
to to actually knowing in that the

1286
01:08:51,769 --> 01:08:48,960
question is this what I think is going

1287
01:08:52,999 --> 01:08:51,779
on and what is really going on are going

1288
01:08:54,559 --> 01:08:53,009
to be two different things

1289
01:08:58,599 --> 01:08:54,569
I don't think that I'm going to be

1290
01:09:02,840 --> 01:08:58,609
really close to to having the answers I

1291
01:09:05,899 --> 01:09:02,850
think you have to appreciate when I

1292
01:09:12,649 --> 01:09:05,909
would call the trickster archetype all

1293
01:09:16,459 --> 01:09:12,659
of these phenomena have a characteristic

1294
01:09:19,129 --> 01:09:16,469
which is like it's a game and we haven't

1295
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:19,139
figured out what the game is entirely

1296
01:09:22,879 --> 01:09:20,880
about yet

1297
01:09:24,079 --> 01:09:22,889
but it reminds me a bit of

1298
01:09:26,149 --> 01:09:24,089
hide-and-go-seek

1299
01:09:28,970 --> 01:09:26,159
you know all children in every culture

1300
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:28,980
play hide-and-go-seek and I think this

1301
01:09:36,490 --> 01:09:32,880
phenomenon the UFOs and many other forms

1302
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:36,500
of spiritual and psychic manifestations

1303
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:40,850
ectoplasm mediumship materializations of

1304
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:45,050
various kinds airports UFOs

1305
01:09:55,580 --> 01:09:51,090
they all seem to be enticing us but but

1306
01:09:57,710 --> 01:09:55,590
in a funny way it's it's like as soon as

1307
01:10:00,110 --> 01:09:57,720
you think you've got a handle on it and

1308
01:10:03,500 --> 01:10:00,120
you understand what this phenomenon is

1309
01:10:09,740 --> 01:10:03,510
it changes can we handle the truth

1310
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:09,750
though well ultimately as I've been

1311
01:10:15,050 --> 01:10:12,090
trying to suggest the truth is us that's

1312
01:10:18,380 --> 01:10:15,060
we have to handle who we are what our

1313
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:18,390
nature is we think we're these you know

1314
01:10:23,630 --> 01:10:19,530
human being

1315
01:10:26,030 --> 01:10:23,640
animals part of the primate family and

1316
01:10:29,510 --> 01:10:26,040
that's probably just the tiniest sliver

1317
01:10:34,700 --> 01:10:29,520
of who we are well in I mean could we

1318
01:10:37,370 --> 01:10:34,710
even understand the what we're dealing

1319
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:37,380
with I mean what would the conversation

1320
01:10:45,820 --> 01:10:41,130
even be about right I mean it would have

1321
01:10:49,310 --> 01:10:45,830
to be a civilization more advanced

1322
01:10:52,700 --> 01:10:49,320
because they got here we didn't go there

1323
01:10:56,510 --> 01:10:52,710
right so the ability and the technology

1324
01:10:58,700 --> 01:10:56,520
to arrive here would suggest an

1325
01:11:01,550 --> 01:10:58,710
intelligence way beyond our

1326
01:11:04,330 --> 01:11:01,560
comprehension and plenty of people who

1327
01:11:06,170 --> 01:11:04,340
think that they came from other planets

1328
01:11:09,050 --> 01:11:06,180
you bet

1329
01:11:12,740 --> 01:11:09,060
I'd be willing to bet you that a high

1330
01:11:15,380 --> 01:11:12,750
percentage of your listeners sincerely

1331
01:11:19,190 --> 01:11:15,390
believe that they have had past lives on

1332
01:11:22,550 --> 01:11:19,200
other planets and okay let's go there

1333
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:22,560
have you you know no I don't have any

1334
01:11:28,490 --> 01:11:25,650
such memories myself and although it's

1335
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:28,500
tantalizing and I think about it I

1336
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:32,880
wonder I don't really have very strong

1337
01:11:38,630 --> 01:11:36,330
past life memories of you know every now

1338
01:11:41,930 --> 01:11:38,640
and then I get it kind of maybe a

1339
01:11:45,860 --> 01:11:41,940
momentary flash of something but not

1340
01:11:48,380 --> 01:11:45,870
enough to really hang on - yeah my fear

1341
01:11:50,990 --> 01:11:48,390
with past life and past life regressions

1342
01:11:53,980 --> 01:11:51,000
is I'm just going to be some some guy

1343
01:11:56,850 --> 01:11:53,990
rolling in the mud begging for change

1344
01:11:59,580 --> 01:11:56,860
during the Renaissance

1345
01:12:04,530 --> 01:11:59,590
human history there's a high probability

1346
01:12:07,350 --> 01:12:04,540
that that's the case and and when let's

1347
01:12:10,050 --> 01:12:07,360
stay right here with with regression

1348
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:10,060
therapy and with hypnosis is that

1349
01:12:17,459 --> 01:12:14,050
something that we can depend on no

1350
01:12:20,700 --> 01:12:17,469
certainly not I wouldn't I wouldn't

1351
01:12:24,300 --> 01:12:20,710
depend on it at all because amongst

1352
01:12:28,140 --> 01:12:24,310
other things the hypnotist has the

1353
01:12:31,979 --> 01:12:28,150
ability even telepathically to implant

1354
01:12:35,459 --> 01:12:31,989
ideas and and so there's enormous

1355
01:12:38,550 --> 01:12:35,469
potential for contamination and that a

1356
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:38,560
person under hypnosis will want to come

1357
01:12:43,470 --> 01:12:40,330
up with something that's going to please

1358
01:12:46,740 --> 01:12:43,480
the hypnotist have you have you been

1359
01:12:50,340 --> 01:12:46,750
regressed not many times and I've also

1360
01:12:52,890 --> 01:12:50,350
done regressions many times I think it's

1361
01:12:58,379 --> 01:12:52,900
from a therapeutic point of view it can

1362
01:13:01,080 --> 01:12:58,389
be very valuable I think emotionally the

1363
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:01,090
the kind of scenarios that come up in

1364
01:13:08,459 --> 01:13:04,690
hypnotic regression are are true in in

1365
01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:08,469
the sense that they represent emotional

1366
01:13:13,410 --> 01:13:10,480
truths for each person but I would not

1367
01:13:16,729 --> 01:13:13,420
necessarily take them literally although

1368
01:13:20,879 --> 01:13:16,739
I do think that on occasion

1369
01:13:23,250 --> 01:13:20,889
there's evidence that that a literal

1370
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:23,260
interpretation is the appropriate one

1371
01:13:30,270 --> 01:13:26,770
when somebody has a missing time

1372
01:13:32,879 --> 01:13:30,280
experience and I can specifically talk

1373
01:13:36,390 --> 01:13:32,889
about myself personally I have not been

1374
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:36,400
requests in Jeffery so I can say that

1375
01:13:40,590 --> 01:13:39,250
there's reasons why I won't do it but

1376
01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:40,600
when somebody has an abduction

1377
01:13:47,550 --> 01:13:43,840
experience or a missing time experience

1378
01:13:49,859 --> 01:13:47,560
and they go back and and have this

1379
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:49,869
information revealed and they revealed

1380
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:52,570
it are we getting into a danger zone

1381
01:13:57,810 --> 01:13:55,449
there or would you have the ability to

1382
01:14:00,570 --> 01:13:57,820
go back and into a gap in somebody's

1383
01:14:05,970 --> 01:14:00,580
memory and retrieve what actually

1384
01:14:08,939 --> 01:14:05,980
happened well I I think it's possible to

1385
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:08,949
do that but I I don't think we can ever

1386
01:14:13,580 --> 01:14:10,330
be certain

1387
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:13,590
that when somebody comes up with a

1388
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:16,810
particular memory that that it's a valid

1389
01:14:21,450 --> 01:14:19,450
memory and not something well you you

1390
01:14:26,700 --> 01:14:21,460
I'm sure you've heard of what people

1391
01:14:29,490 --> 01:14:26,710
call false memories so we just don't

1392
01:14:31,770 --> 01:14:29,500
know for sure and unless there's you

1393
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:31,780
know what parapsychologists are always

1394
01:14:40,290 --> 01:14:35,250
looking for is independent confirmation

1395
01:14:45,060 --> 01:14:40,300
the the experiences that I have had I've

1396
01:14:47,340 --> 01:14:45,070
had quite a few therapists suggested me

1397
01:14:50,940 --> 01:14:47,350
to go back and and find out what

1398
01:14:53,460 --> 01:14:50,950
happened and my answer is you know quite

1399
01:14:57,180 --> 01:14:53,470
honestly I don't want to know let's just

1400
01:14:59,430 --> 01:14:57,190
let's just leave that alone I don't need

1401
01:15:02,010 --> 01:14:59,440
to know and I'm okay with myself right

1402
01:15:04,770 --> 01:15:02,020
now but there's also something

1403
01:15:06,540 --> 01:15:04,780
suggesting to me that if I went to

1404
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:06,550
different therapists that I would get

1405
01:15:13,650 --> 01:15:09,760
different answers right that that that

1406
01:15:16,740 --> 01:15:13,660
quite possibly the the the truth the

1407
01:15:19,350 --> 01:15:16,750
actuality is not what is going to be

1408
01:15:23,220 --> 01:15:19,360
found out it's going to be with the

1409
01:15:27,060 --> 01:15:23,230
therapist there there's good reason to

1410
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:27,070
think that that's the case one of my old

1411
01:15:33,180 --> 01:15:30,730
friends dr. Edith Fiore was doing

1412
01:15:36,210 --> 01:15:33,190
conventional behavior therapy using

1413
01:15:38,190 --> 01:15:36,220
hypnosis and then she began discovering

1414
01:15:40,830 --> 01:15:38,200
you know that some of her patients had

1415
01:15:43,590 --> 01:15:40,840
had past life memories and those

1416
01:15:46,440 --> 01:15:43,600
memories were often very significant in

1417
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:46,450
terms of their cure of various

1418
01:15:54,810 --> 01:15:50,410
conditions particularly phobias then she

1419
01:15:58,110 --> 01:15:54,820
got involved in the idea of possession

1420
01:16:00,600 --> 01:15:58,120
possession by deceased beings and all of

1421
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:00,610
a sudden all of her patients began

1422
01:16:07,700 --> 01:16:04,570
having possession experiences and then

1423
01:16:10,530 --> 01:16:07,710
she got involved in the idea of alien

1424
01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:10,540
entities from other planets and once

1425
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:12,880
again all of her patients kept producing

1426
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:16,090
those symptoms and what what was her

1427
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:19,330
conclusion that it was her I mean that's

1428
01:16:23,930 --> 01:16:21,520
what that's what I'm hearing you know

1429
01:16:27,260 --> 01:16:23,940
she was caught up in it she wrote

1430
01:16:30,250 --> 01:16:27,270
books each time she went through one of

1431
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:30,260
these phases and the book sold well I

1432
01:16:36,620 --> 01:16:33,090
unfortunately at one point the state of

1433
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:36,630
California took her license away because

1434
01:16:43,340 --> 01:16:39,840
of complaints but I I don't know that

1435
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:43,350
she reached a conclusion she took each

1436
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:45,930
through each phase that she went through

1437
01:16:52,729 --> 01:16:50,130
she took the statements made by her

1438
01:16:55,459 --> 01:16:52,739
patients under hypnosis said at face

1439
01:16:58,040 --> 01:16:55,469
value and I think it's a terrible

1440
01:17:00,770 --> 01:16:58,050
mistake to do that I think people who

1441
01:17:03,650 --> 01:17:00,780
practice hypnosis are often unaware of

1442
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:03,660
the extraordinary influence that they

1443
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:06,239
have over the people who are being

1444
01:17:14,540 --> 01:17:08,850
hypnotized by them it's it's a very

1445
01:17:17,180 --> 01:17:14,550
powerful tool and it's a it you you you

1446
01:17:19,430 --> 01:17:17,190
have a tremendous amount of power you

1447
01:17:22,610 --> 01:17:19,440
know when and when you acknowledge the

1448
01:17:24,860 --> 01:17:22,620
possibility of telepathic contact and

1449
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:24,870
communication so even if the hypnotist

1450
01:17:32,090 --> 01:17:29,370
is being really careful not to verbally

1451
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:32,100
let on you know what their hypothesis is

1452
01:17:36,860 --> 01:17:34,290
where they think things are going a

1453
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:36,870
patient will pick up on it anyway and

1454
01:17:43,700 --> 01:17:41,130
and with the that part of it and I'm

1455
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:43,710
talking about alien contact there are a

1456
01:17:50,140 --> 01:17:46,410
lot of there I know a lot of them

1457
01:17:53,030 --> 01:17:50,150
personally that are very very careful

1458
01:17:55,100 --> 01:17:53,040
that they feel that the only way to

1459
01:17:58,760 --> 01:17:55,110
professionally look at this is not to

1460
01:18:00,680 --> 01:17:58,770
suggest anything yeah and and they want

1461
01:18:02,420 --> 01:18:00,690
to have a witness there there's somebody

1462
01:18:07,370 --> 01:18:02,430
else in the room they're gonna videotape

1463
01:18:10,580 --> 01:18:07,380
there's no leading anything going on but

1464
01:18:14,140 --> 01:18:10,590
there are others out there that don't do

1465
01:18:17,300 --> 01:18:14,150
it that way and is it something that is

1466
01:18:19,729 --> 01:18:17,310
ultimately damaging the people that are

1467
01:18:23,180 --> 01:18:19,739
emotionally reaching out for these

1468
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:23,190
answers right and and in the end it's

1469
01:18:28,670 --> 01:18:25,410
it's it's going to be worse than before

1470
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:28,680
the session even happened well and as I

1471
01:18:36,129 --> 01:18:31,370
point out there's no way you can prevent

1472
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:36,139
potential telepathic suggestions and

1473
01:18:41,470 --> 01:18:38,210
I'm looking at your don't have a block

1474
01:18:44,189 --> 01:18:41,480
right right and and then there's the

1475
01:18:48,310 --> 01:18:44,199
other part about removing blockages

1476
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:48,320
right you go and and that is there's

1477
01:18:53,740 --> 01:18:51,170
something blocking this memory so we

1478
01:18:57,419 --> 01:18:53,750
need to remove what has been placed

1479
01:19:01,390 --> 01:18:57,429
there to block this memory is that

1480
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:01,400
already leading a suggestion going into

1481
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:05,330
this you know we talked earlier about

1482
01:19:11,140 --> 01:19:08,690
Terence Mckenna and one thing he used to

1483
01:19:13,260 --> 01:19:11,150
say about all of this which I tend to

1484
01:19:16,419 --> 01:19:13,270
think is right on is that we are so

1485
01:19:18,689 --> 01:19:16,429
alienated from ourselves that when we

1486
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:18,699
have a deep encounter with our own

1487
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:22,130
depths we think it's an alien being from

1488
01:19:25,740 --> 01:19:24,290
another planet there's nothing wrong

1489
01:19:28,660 --> 01:19:25,750
with that

1490
01:19:29,260 --> 01:19:28,670
fortunately there's there's nothing

1491
01:19:32,649 --> 01:19:29,270
wrong with that

1492
01:19:36,340 --> 01:19:32,659
and there's there's there's one other

1493
01:19:39,459 --> 01:19:36,350
thing that I'm always shocked

1494
01:19:41,830 --> 01:19:39,469
I'm completely conscious about is that

1495
01:19:44,950 --> 01:19:41,840
I've had my own strange experiences

1496
01:19:48,070 --> 01:19:44,960
right I've had things that I cannot

1497
01:19:51,879 --> 01:19:48,080
explain Jeffrey and when somebody wants

1498
01:19:55,590 --> 01:19:51,889
to share their experiences with me I I

1499
01:19:57,959 --> 01:19:55,600
have to listen because I have

1500
01:20:01,810 --> 01:19:57,969
experienced things that are completely

1501
01:20:04,810 --> 01:20:01,820
unbelievable and when I when I share

1502
01:20:06,939 --> 01:20:04,820
these experiences I'm asking everybody

1503
01:20:10,959 --> 01:20:06,949
else to believe what I am saying because

1504
01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:10,969
I think it's real right that it is part

1505
01:20:16,890 --> 01:20:13,760
of my reality and that's that it's

1506
01:20:24,129 --> 01:20:16,900
almost like I'm in a paradox position I

1507
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:24,139
know the feeling you know and that's the

1508
01:20:30,370 --> 01:20:27,770
thing I can't I can't be or you you

1509
01:20:34,990 --> 01:20:30,380
can't be judging jury right we have to

1510
01:20:36,879 --> 01:20:35,000
listen yeah I because I realize that a

1511
01:20:39,790 --> 01:20:36,889
lot of people will come to me with

1512
01:20:42,220 --> 01:20:39,800
stories that I find unbelievable but so

1513
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:42,230
I have my stories that other people find

1514
01:20:47,359 --> 01:20:45,650
um unbelievable as well yeah and we're

1515
01:20:49,220 --> 01:20:47,369
going to venture into that when we come

1516
01:20:51,979 --> 01:20:49,230
after the break fascinating conversation

1517
01:20:55,359 --> 01:20:51,989
tonight our guest is Geoffrey Mishlove

1518
01:20:58,399 --> 01:20:55,369
and again over at Jimmy Church radio.com

1519
01:21:01,100 --> 01:20:58,409
you can get to thinking aloud Klink out

1520
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:01,110
to click on the links clink clink on the

1521
01:21:05,959 --> 01:21:04,290
licks click on the legs over at Jimmy

1522
01:21:10,220 --> 01:21:05,969
Church radio comma we'll be right back

1523
01:21:10,230 --> 01:21:18,830
[Music]

1524
01:21:22,070 --> 01:21:20,630
welcome back pain to black homegirl

1525
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:22,080
shimmy Church our guest tonight Jeffrey

1526
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:23,730
Mitchell ah what a great conversation

1527
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:27,330
tonight and this is what we're gonna do

1528
01:21:31,730 --> 01:21:29,280
next this is what we're gonna do next

1529
01:21:34,130 --> 01:21:31,740
Jeff I've got a bunch of questions that

1530
01:21:37,370 --> 01:21:34,140
have been sent in from the audience I

1531
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:37,380
want to try to get some of these in but

1532
01:21:44,090 --> 01:21:40,890
I want to ask you this I made a decision

1533
01:21:47,300 --> 01:21:44,100
when I was very young I was at the age

1534
01:21:52,430 --> 01:21:47,310
of 22 where I read some inconsistencies

1535
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:52,440
in religious upbringing that forced me

1536
01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:54,090
into questioning everything at that

1537
01:21:59,540 --> 01:21:56,250
point and I felt that I was lied to

1538
01:22:02,540 --> 01:21:59,550
and that my own spiritual path was going

1539
01:22:05,690 --> 01:22:02,550
to be my own and that I wasn't going to

1540
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:05,700
listen to anybody else is that a safe

1541
01:22:14,410 --> 01:22:11,130
zone to go into yes yeah it's a it's a

1542
01:22:17,570 --> 01:22:14,420
very healthy safe to go and do in my

1543
01:22:21,470 --> 01:22:17,580
estimation it means that you're becoming

1544
01:22:25,670 --> 01:22:21,480
a free thinker and with that and that

1545
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:25,680
wasn't a softball question this is

1546
01:22:31,870 --> 01:22:27,090
something that you have been discussing

1547
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:31,880
and pursuing for a very long time and in

1548
01:22:38,660 --> 01:22:36,330
2019 spirituality and what it means may

1549
01:22:41,750 --> 01:22:38,670
not be the same as it was 10 years ago

1550
01:22:45,850 --> 01:22:41,760
or 20 years ago or 30 years ago has it

1551
01:22:48,350 --> 01:22:45,860
evolved well I would say that the

1552
01:22:51,110 --> 01:22:48,360
fastest-growing segment of our

1553
01:22:56,050 --> 01:22:51,120
population right now as best I can tell

1554
01:23:00,080 --> 01:22:56,060
are people who consider themselves

1555
01:23:02,810 --> 01:23:00,090
spiritual but not within an organized

1556
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:02,820
religion but spiritual and secular at

1557
01:23:09,230 --> 01:23:06,570
the same time and and then we have you

1558
01:23:15,380 --> 01:23:09,240
know characters out there like Richard

1559
01:23:18,980 --> 01:23:15,390
Dawkins and the the staunch real atheist

1560
01:23:21,110 --> 01:23:18,990
right and and that these are you know

1561
01:23:24,470 --> 01:23:21,120
very educated you know in some cases a

1562
01:23:26,570 --> 01:23:24,480
physicists and scientists biologists and

1563
01:23:28,250 --> 01:23:26,580
they they look at the universe and they

1564
01:23:30,470 --> 01:23:28,260
go back you know what it's it's just

1565
01:23:32,270 --> 01:23:30,480
chemicals you know there's there's

1566
01:23:34,430 --> 01:23:32,280
nothing else to it

1567
01:23:37,250 --> 01:23:34,440
and it reminds me the old foxhole

1568
01:23:39,530 --> 01:23:37,260
mentality right well what's can happen

1569
01:23:42,950 --> 01:23:39,540
when one one of these guys faces death

1570
01:23:45,170 --> 01:23:42,960
are they suddenly spiritual right and

1571
01:23:49,300 --> 01:23:45,180
what are they gonna get when they see

1572
01:23:52,850 --> 01:23:49,310
the other side will they actually change

1573
01:23:54,950 --> 01:23:52,860
well there have been instances of that

1574
01:23:57,590 --> 01:23:54,960
there was a philosopher named Anthony

1575
01:24:00,830 --> 01:23:57,600
flue who was a very well-known atheist

1576
01:24:04,930 --> 01:24:00,840
and who toward the end of his life

1577
01:24:08,180 --> 01:24:04,940
changed his mind about it completely so

1578
01:24:11,630 --> 01:24:08,190
it certainly can happen anybody who has

1579
01:24:16,580 --> 01:24:11,640
had a near-death experience comes back

1580
01:24:21,110 --> 01:24:16,590
with a profound unshakable belief and in

1581
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:21,120
survival after death and we have so many

1582
01:24:26,090 --> 01:24:23,690
unanswered questions and one of them is

1583
01:24:29,030 --> 01:24:26,100
not only life after death and what

1584
01:24:31,550 --> 01:24:29,040
happens are we alone in the universe why

1585
01:24:34,460 --> 01:24:31,560
are we here where are we going these are

1586
01:24:36,590 --> 01:24:34,470
profound questions but I think one of

1587
01:24:39,890 --> 01:24:36,600
the most fundamental ones is the

1588
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:39,900
creation of the universe what do you

1589
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:42,890
think ultimately is there was there a

1590
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:47,370
supreme spiritual entity that created

1591
01:24:51,980 --> 01:24:48,930
everything that has created other

1592
01:24:57,470 --> 01:24:51,990
universes out there or that it was just

1593
01:25:00,590 --> 01:24:57,480
some accident with with chemistry well

1594
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:00,600
I'm I'm kind of leaning towards the

1595
01:25:06,590 --> 01:25:03,810
hide-and-go-seek theory about the

1596
01:25:10,700 --> 01:25:06,600
creation of the universe that this that

1597
01:25:12,020 --> 01:25:10,710
maybe you created it Jimmy and but

1598
01:25:14,270 --> 01:25:12,030
you're playing a game of

1599
01:25:18,460 --> 01:25:14,280
hide-and-go-seek with yourself so that

1600
01:25:22,190 --> 01:25:18,470
you're pretending to be a human being on

1601
01:25:25,790 --> 01:25:22,200
planet earth and inside of a primate

1602
01:25:27,650 --> 01:25:25,800
body and in the game in order to make

1603
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:27,660
the game really interesting you've

1604
01:25:32,810 --> 01:25:30,570
forgotten that you're the creator of the

1605
01:25:33,260 --> 01:25:32,820
whole game to begin with so that's the

1606
01:25:36,500 --> 01:25:33,270
answer

1607
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:36,510
it was Jeffrey Mishlove that created the

1608
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:39,600
universe really well played well played

1609
01:25:47,989 --> 01:25:44,010
well played what playing

1610
01:25:49,430 --> 01:25:47,999
well played and I want to get to some of

1611
01:25:52,370 --> 01:25:49,440
these questions really quick and then

1612
01:25:54,739 --> 01:25:52,380
I'm actually going to morph this into

1613
01:25:58,759 --> 01:25:54,749
time travel we're gonna get to that

1614
01:26:00,319 --> 01:25:58,769
before I let you go tonight but this

1615
01:26:02,989 --> 01:26:00,329
question comes in from Wendy and she

1616
01:26:06,379 --> 01:26:02,999
says I would love to know which guests

1617
01:26:11,060 --> 01:26:06,389
have most affected Jeffry personally and

1618
01:26:14,509 --> 01:26:11,070
in what way oh boy

1619
01:26:17,060 --> 01:26:14,519
yep that's a tough one because usually

1620
01:26:19,250 --> 01:26:17,070
the the guest that affects me the most

1621
01:26:21,739 --> 01:26:19,260
is the one I'm with at any given moment

1622
01:26:24,430 --> 01:26:21,749
right now you're the one who's affecting

1623
01:26:27,799 --> 01:26:24,440
me the most personally even even though

1624
01:26:34,930 --> 01:26:27,809
I'm not interviewing you but but as I

1625
01:26:40,509 --> 01:26:34,940
look back I say one of the most profound

1626
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:40,519
guests that I've ever had was a

1627
01:26:45,379 --> 01:26:43,170
philosopher a psychologist named ralo

1628
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:45,389
Mae a person with whom I had some

1629
01:26:52,850 --> 01:26:50,400
profound disagreements but I thought he

1630
01:26:57,049 --> 01:26:52,860
wrote about depression he you know who's

1631
01:26:59,089 --> 01:26:57,059
very famous psychologist and IRA's you

1632
01:27:02,689 --> 01:26:59,099
know I think he died about 20-30 years

1633
01:27:05,959 --> 01:27:02,699
ago but he he wrote about depression and

1634
01:27:09,830 --> 01:27:05,969
in such a powerful way that just reading

1635
01:27:12,890 --> 01:27:09,840
his book I began crying it broke into

1636
01:27:16,370 --> 01:27:12,900
tears when I finished his book because

1637
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:16,380
it seemed as if he he he had written

1638
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:22,530
about the importance of being depressed

1639
01:27:27,949 --> 01:27:25,650
that that that's a perspective when you

1640
01:27:32,060 --> 01:27:27,959
feel depressed you're getting in touch

1641
01:27:35,779 --> 01:27:32,070
with a kind of an aspect of reality that

1642
01:27:37,879 --> 01:27:35,789
most of us hide from it's it's the I

1643
01:27:39,830 --> 01:27:37,889
think that all of us and myself

1644
01:27:44,140 --> 01:27:39,840
personally would agree with that in that

1645
01:27:47,239 --> 01:27:44,150
when you go through a certain darkness

1646
01:27:53,060 --> 01:27:47,249
you always come out of the other side

1647
01:27:55,850 --> 01:27:53,070
sma'da you you you you you go somewhere

1648
01:27:57,780 --> 01:27:55,860
and it is about personal discovery but

1649
01:28:04,510 --> 01:27:57,790
you come out

1650
01:28:06,729 --> 01:28:04,520
you just got with it and it reminds me

1651
01:28:08,050 --> 01:28:06,739
actually of a guest I've recently

1652
01:28:09,879 --> 01:28:08,060
interviewed they haven't even been

1653
01:28:13,810 --> 01:28:09,889
released yet they won't be released

1654
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:13,820
until next month but one of my oldest

1655
01:28:19,780 --> 01:28:17,210
friends I'm first met him in 1971 a

1656
01:28:22,750 --> 01:28:19,790
fellow named Daryl shoot he ended up

1657
01:28:26,169 --> 01:28:22,760
spending six years in prison for seven

1658
01:28:29,229 --> 01:28:26,179
years on a ten year sentence and he came

1659
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:29,239
out of it you know I can have to say now

1660
01:28:34,629 --> 01:28:32,090
stronger and better than ever but I know

1661
01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:34,639
he suffered enormous Lee during that

1662
01:28:42,189 --> 01:28:40,130
period the this next question I hope you

1663
01:28:43,750 --> 01:28:42,199
understand it or you know what this is

1664
01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:43,760
about because it's pretty interesting

1665
01:28:51,030 --> 01:28:48,080
this is from a woke does Geoffrey

1666
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:51,040
remember the 2018 psychotronics

1667
01:28:56,979 --> 01:28:54,770
conference middle of the power outage at

1668
01:28:59,350 --> 01:28:56,989
a hotel myself and other guests

1669
01:29:01,689 --> 01:28:59,360
experience paranormal activity including

1670
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:01,699
strange sounds and visitors non-human

1671
01:29:09,939 --> 01:29:04,730
does he have any insight regarding that

1672
01:29:12,399 --> 01:29:09,949
night no I was at the conference if he's

1673
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:12,409
talking about the one and it was in

1674
01:29:22,570 --> 01:29:17,690
Chicago as I recall but I don't recall

1675
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:22,580
the power outage at all man so you were

1676
01:29:31,510 --> 01:29:26,210
there I was I was hoping this was gonna

1677
01:29:34,570 --> 01:29:31,520
go somewhere else that I wanted to also

1678
01:29:36,820 --> 01:29:34,580
get some telekinesis in and some

1679
01:29:41,620 --> 01:29:36,830
telepathy questions I want to try to

1680
01:29:45,310 --> 01:29:41,630
remember to get those in Sabrina wants

1681
01:29:57,339 --> 01:29:45,320
to know have you experienced channeling

1682
01:30:00,970 --> 01:29:57,349
of angels there's like three or four

1683
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:00,980
questions from different from different

1684
01:30:06,510 --> 01:30:02,449
listeners right now that have all

1685
01:30:09,660 --> 01:30:06,520
brought up channeling have you channeled

1686
01:30:10,170 --> 01:30:09,670
and Indies do you think that this is

1687
01:30:15,570 --> 01:30:10,180
real

1688
01:30:18,060 --> 01:30:15,580
I have never channeled myself however I

1689
01:30:21,540 --> 01:30:18,070
have a very close friend who's a famous

1690
01:30:25,020 --> 01:30:21,550
channel Kevin Ryerson who was featured

1691
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:25,030
in Shirley MacLaine's famous TV series

1692
01:30:30,270 --> 01:30:27,850
out on a limb and and in her book he was

1693
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:30,280
one of the big inspirations behind the

1694
01:30:35,730 --> 01:30:32,770
major transformation that Shirley

1695
01:30:39,300 --> 01:30:35,740
MacLaine went through and Kevin has been

1696
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:39,310
a dear friend of mine for decades I've

1697
01:30:45,020 --> 01:30:42,250
traveled with him to Egypt I've traveled

1698
01:30:49,890 --> 01:30:45,030
with him to Peru the man is absolutely

1699
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:49,900
amazing now as a parapsychologist I

1700
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:52,570
don't know whether the entities that

1701
01:31:00,270 --> 01:30:54,970
come through him when he's channeling

1702
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:00,280
are real autonomous entities figures

1703
01:31:10,010 --> 01:31:04,650
from previous eras as they purport to be

1704
01:31:13,310 --> 01:31:10,020
but I can say that regardless the

1705
01:31:16,590 --> 01:31:13,320
information that comes through and the

1706
01:31:22,650 --> 01:31:16,600
impact that it has on people is very

1707
01:31:29,010 --> 01:31:22,660
very profound so I say that channeling

1708
01:31:31,620 --> 01:31:29,020
is definitely a phenomenon that deserves

1709
01:31:34,620 --> 01:31:31,630
to be taken seriously yeah what did you

1710
01:31:39,210 --> 01:31:34,630
make of Jane Roberts and and Seth speaks

1711
01:31:42,780 --> 01:31:39,220
I think Jane Roberts was a very talented

1712
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:42,790
writer and that the material that comes

1713
01:31:51,990 --> 01:31:47,290
through in the Seth channellings has

1714
01:31:54,210 --> 01:31:52,000
been very inspirational for people at a

1715
01:31:58,400 --> 01:31:54,220
metaphysical level it seems to be

1716
01:32:04,410 --> 01:31:58,410
consistent and coherent and thoughtful

1717
01:32:08,670 --> 01:32:04,420
and it inspires me to think more deeply

1718
01:32:11,220 --> 01:32:08,680
about these things but whether Seth is a

1719
01:32:16,650 --> 01:32:11,230
real entity or just a figment of Jane

1720
01:32:19,440 --> 01:32:16,660
Roberts mind I I have no idea and some

1721
01:32:20,210 --> 01:32:19,450
quick questions before I do want to get

1722
01:32:26,270 --> 01:32:20,220
to telecommute

1723
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:26,280
and time travel but what about astronomy

1724
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:29,050
astronomers and and looking to the stars

1725
01:32:36,180 --> 01:32:33,010
for answers I love astronomy I have a

1726
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:36,190
telescope I spend as much time as I can

1727
01:32:44,030 --> 01:32:38,650
outdoors at night looking up into the

1728
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:44,040
sky with telescope binoculars naked-eye

1729
01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:46,690
ever since I've been a child I've been

1730
01:32:52,860 --> 01:32:49,120
fascinated by astronomy I think it's a

1731
01:32:54,780 --> 01:32:52,870
wonderful science one of the things that

1732
01:32:59,400 --> 01:32:54,790
fascinates me the most with astronomy

1733
01:33:00,930 --> 01:32:59,410
today is that we've all like you just

1734
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:00,940
said right we've all looked to the stars

1735
01:33:06,390 --> 01:33:03,370
since we were kids you just walk outside

1736
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:06,400
at night you you look up that's what we

1737
01:33:12,450 --> 01:33:10,090
all do but that every single star now

1738
01:33:16,140 --> 01:33:12,460
every single one in the night sky that

1739
01:33:18,060 --> 01:33:16,150
you can see has a planet that's pretty

1740
01:33:21,750 --> 01:33:18,070
nuts isn't it I mean isn't that just

1741
01:33:24,650 --> 01:33:21,760
mind-blowing I imagine there might be

1742
01:33:27,450 --> 01:33:24,660
some stars that don't have planets but

1743
01:33:30,300 --> 01:33:27,460
it is mind-blowing when you think about

1744
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:30,310
the vastness of the universe and I think

1745
01:33:37,170 --> 01:33:33,970
about that a lot because it seems to me

1746
01:33:40,050 --> 01:33:37,180
that in in some ways the human body with

1747
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:40,060
its trillions of cells is like a whole

1748
01:33:48,020 --> 01:33:43,690
universe and that I sometimes think that

1749
01:33:51,090 --> 01:33:48,030
if I were God aware of all the planets

1750
01:33:53,790 --> 01:33:51,100
simultaneously what would that be like

1751
01:33:55,950 --> 01:33:53,800
would it be the same as being human and

1752
01:33:59,340 --> 01:33:55,960
and being aware of all the cells in your

1753
01:34:02,910 --> 01:33:59,350
body at one time some of your new shows

1754
01:34:05,030 --> 01:34:02,920
in the new version of thinking aloud

1755
01:34:09,210 --> 01:34:05,040
which is called new thinking allowed

1756
01:34:14,490 --> 01:34:09,220
you're you've dipped your toes into time

1757
01:34:16,770 --> 01:34:14,500
travel and is this because you're

1758
01:34:21,690 --> 01:34:16,780
fascinated with it or do you believe

1759
01:34:25,410 --> 01:34:21,700
that time travel is is a reality well I

1760
01:34:28,490 --> 01:34:25,420
I certainly know that precognition is is

1761
01:34:30,690 --> 01:34:28,500
a reality there the scientific data that

1762
01:34:33,070 --> 01:34:30,700
parapsychologists have accumulated about

1763
01:34:36,750 --> 01:34:33,080
our ability to know

1764
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:36,760
events in the future is very strong and

1765
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:42,130
I've experienced myself and witnessed it

1766
01:34:50,830 --> 01:34:48,530
numerous occasions so time travel though

1767
01:34:54,190 --> 01:34:50,840
can we actually like in the HD Welles

1768
01:34:57,880 --> 01:34:54,200
movie travel back and forth in in time I

1769
01:35:03,700 --> 01:34:57,890
think it's a fascinating idea I have no

1770
01:35:05,050 --> 01:35:03,710
reason to think that it's possible and I

1771
01:35:08,770 --> 01:35:05,060
have no reason to think it's not

1772
01:35:10,990 --> 01:35:08,780
possible actually in terms of some sort

1773
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:11,000
of a physical machine that could travel

1774
01:35:18,459 --> 01:35:14,330
through time well how do we how do we

1775
01:35:21,550 --> 01:35:18,469
resolve Precog and and deja vu

1776
01:35:24,850 --> 01:35:21,560
right there there's no way to know the

1777
01:35:28,780 --> 01:35:24,860
future unless something else is going on

1778
01:35:31,750 --> 01:35:28,790
with this reality and it would certainly

1779
01:35:33,970 --> 01:35:31,760
suggest that somebody has read your book

1780
01:35:36,070 --> 01:35:33,980
of the future and has given you that

1781
01:35:39,130 --> 01:35:36,080
information right whether it is through

1782
01:35:42,070 --> 01:35:39,140
dreams or visions or or deja vu for

1783
01:35:44,530 --> 01:35:42,080
instance yeah parapsychologists have

1784
01:35:47,260 --> 01:35:44,540
different theories some people talk

1785
01:35:50,860 --> 01:35:47,270
about information traveling backwards

1786
01:35:55,030 --> 01:35:50,870
through time retro causation which is a

1787
01:35:58,450 --> 01:35:55,040
hot topic now and in physics others talk

1788
01:36:00,970 --> 01:35:58,460
about what they call the block universe

1789
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:00,980
which is an idea that actually comes out

1790
01:36:07,420 --> 01:36:04,610
of Einstein that actually all time

1791
01:36:10,020 --> 01:36:07,430
exists already past present and future

1792
01:36:13,959 --> 01:36:10,030
but we we don't see it because we're

1793
01:36:16,390 --> 01:36:13,969
like traveling down the river of time

1794
01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:16,400
but if we were up in the air we'd see

1795
01:36:23,380 --> 01:36:21,170
the whole river so to speak and that's

1796
01:36:26,110 --> 01:36:23,390
another way of thinking about time other

1797
01:36:29,860 --> 01:36:26,120
people suggest that time doesn't exist

1798
01:36:32,470 --> 01:36:29,870
at all that it's it's secondary that all

1799
01:36:36,190 --> 01:36:32,480
that really exists is matter and energy

1800
01:36:38,910 --> 01:36:36,200
and consciousness and the movement of

1801
01:36:41,250 --> 01:36:38,920
matter creates the illusion

1802
01:36:46,830 --> 01:36:41,260
of time but where there's only the

1803
01:36:49,500 --> 01:36:46,840
present moment really so I I think you

1804
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:49,510
know these are big questions and and

1805
01:36:52,980 --> 01:36:51,280
there are dozens and dozens of big

1806
01:36:55,530 --> 01:36:52,990
questions like this that are just

1807
01:36:58,710 --> 01:36:55,540
unsettled and the best we can do right

1808
01:37:01,260 --> 01:36:58,720
now is is sort of collect the different

1809
01:37:03,870 --> 01:37:01,270
theories and and weigh and balance them

1810
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:03,880
against each other and against the

1811
01:37:08,070 --> 01:37:05,890
evidence that we have it may take

1812
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:08,080
centuries to resolve some of these

1813
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:12,730
questions but if we if we respond to a

1814
01:37:21,330 --> 01:37:17,370
Precog are we then changing the future

1815
01:37:24,300 --> 01:37:21,340
but yet the future was just given to us

1816
01:37:26,100 --> 01:37:24,310
and that Precog and that would then

1817
01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:26,110
create a paradox and it would be

1818
01:37:32,330 --> 01:37:29,170
impossible to do right well there's a

1819
01:37:35,910 --> 01:37:32,340
classic case in the literature of

1820
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:35,920
parapsychology of a woman who had a

1821
01:37:43,500 --> 01:37:39,970
dream that the chandelier in the room

1822
01:37:47,280 --> 01:37:43,510
where her baby's crib was was gonna fall

1823
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:47,290
and land on the baby so she got up in

1824
01:37:53,010 --> 01:37:48,850
the middle of the night and moved the

1825
01:37:55,230 --> 01:37:53,020
crib and then the chandelier fell as she

1826
01:37:59,520 --> 01:37:55,240
had dreamt but it didn't land on the

1827
01:38:05,520 --> 01:37:59,530
baby it does suggest that pre cognitions

1828
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:05,530
can be used to change the future so the

1829
01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:07,690
world didn't end then a black hole

1830
01:38:14,910 --> 01:38:12,130
wasn't created right and and now is

1831
01:38:21,060 --> 01:38:14,920
Precog in deja vu are these the same

1832
01:38:23,010 --> 01:38:21,070
things certainly some deja Vu's could be

1833
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:23,020
explained that way yes but I

1834
01:38:29,490 --> 01:38:25,810
I think deja vu is a larger topic there

1835
01:38:31,860 --> 01:38:29,500
I did an interview with an expert on

1836
01:38:35,370 --> 01:38:31,870
deja vu Vernon nepi who talked about

1837
01:38:37,890 --> 01:38:35,380
five different kinds of deja vu and only

1838
01:38:42,710 --> 01:38:37,900
one of them was related to precognition

1839
01:38:47,670 --> 01:38:42,720
well I I have I haven't had Precog

1840
01:38:49,770 --> 01:38:47,680
Precog right I haven't but deja vu there

1841
01:38:52,620 --> 01:38:49,780
was a period in my life where that was

1842
01:38:55,350 --> 01:38:52,630
happening like multiple times a day

1843
01:39:00,209 --> 01:38:55,360
and some of them were very long and I

1844
01:39:02,790 --> 01:39:00,219
started to enjoy it where I would just

1845
01:39:05,399 --> 01:39:02,800
freeze it okay here we go all right I

1846
01:39:09,050 --> 01:39:05,409
know what's you know I know what's this

1847
01:39:11,939 --> 01:39:09,060
is strange it hasn't happened lately and

1848
01:39:14,399 --> 01:39:11,949
and I'm kind of missing the deja vu

1849
01:39:18,180 --> 01:39:14,409
experience ultimately what do you what

1850
01:39:20,370 --> 01:39:18,190
do you think deja vu is well as I said

1851
01:39:23,459 --> 01:39:20,380
it could be five different kinds of deja

1852
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:23,469
vu I remember when I was in graduate

1853
01:39:27,540 --> 01:39:25,449
school there was a professor of

1854
01:39:30,209 --> 01:39:27,550
psychology who said that what's really

1855
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:30,219
going on is there's a certain loop in

1856
01:39:38,669 --> 01:39:35,650
your brain that occurs so so when you

1857
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:38,679
think you've experienced an event before

1858
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:40,690
that you're living through now it's

1859
01:39:45,180 --> 01:39:42,850
because you did experience it like a

1860
01:39:48,450 --> 01:39:45,190
moment before and it's circulating in

1861
01:39:52,399 --> 01:39:48,460
your brain to make you have that feeling

1862
01:39:54,660 --> 01:39:52,409
of deja vu so that would be one

1863
01:39:57,810 --> 01:39:54,670
potential explanation another

1864
01:39:59,879 --> 01:39:57,820
explanation is that it it's something

1865
01:40:02,459 --> 01:39:59,889
that reminds you of a dream other

1866
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:02,469
people's would say no it's a past life

1867
01:40:06,450 --> 01:40:04,810
that you're getting in touch with and

1868
01:40:10,919 --> 01:40:06,460
then as you point out there's the

1869
01:40:14,340 --> 01:40:10,929
question of precognition I had a strong

1870
01:40:16,410 --> 01:40:14,350
experience of that on one occasion I was

1871
01:40:20,250 --> 01:40:16,420
visiting a place I had never been before

1872
01:40:24,030 --> 01:40:20,260
and the island of coast off the coast of

1873
01:40:25,740 --> 01:40:24,040
Turkey and it's a Greek island but it's

1874
01:40:28,950 --> 01:40:25,750
off the coast of Turkey there's an

1875
01:40:32,129 --> 01:40:28,960
ancient temple there called an escapee

1876
01:40:34,379 --> 01:40:32,139
on a sleep temple a healing temple that

1877
01:40:39,149 --> 01:40:34,389
where Hippocrates got his training and

1878
01:40:43,020 --> 01:40:39,159
when I was there I knew instantly that I

1879
01:40:46,530 --> 01:40:43,030
had been there that there was a trail a

1880
01:40:49,169 --> 01:40:46,540
path that went up into the hills behind

1881
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:49,179
the temple and and so I walked back

1882
01:40:57,330 --> 01:40:51,850
there and found the path just as I knew

1883
01:41:00,629 --> 01:40:57,340
it was going to be so I have to think

1884
01:41:06,140 --> 01:41:00,639
that past lives could certainly account

1885
01:41:10,530 --> 01:41:08,790
that because it was you know we're

1886
01:41:14,370 --> 01:41:10,540
talking about another country right it's

1887
01:41:18,419 --> 01:41:14,380
in the Mediterranean never right this is

1888
01:41:20,580 --> 01:41:18,429
not something that skeptics would say

1889
01:41:22,379 --> 01:41:20,590
that it was just an experience that you

1890
01:41:25,260 --> 01:41:22,389
had in the past and you're relating that

1891
01:41:27,180 --> 01:41:25,270
to that but we're talking about foreign

1892
01:41:30,419 --> 01:41:27,190
soil here and that kind of removes that

1893
01:41:34,040 --> 01:41:30,429
argument I would think well skeptics

1894
01:41:37,709 --> 01:41:34,050
will stick to their guns anyway but yeah

1895
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:37,719
yeah I mean I'm you know I don't have

1896
01:41:44,010 --> 01:41:41,850
any specific memories of that location

1897
01:41:48,120 --> 01:41:44,020
although I did have a hypnotic

1898
01:41:51,240 --> 01:41:48,130
regression on now that I think about it

1899
01:41:56,490 --> 01:41:51,250
the let's let's get to telekinesis

1900
01:42:00,870 --> 01:41:56,500
really quick and the I like Dean

1901
01:42:04,910 --> 01:42:00,880
Raiden's explanation or possibility or

1902
01:42:09,290 --> 01:42:04,920
his theory about what is going on there

1903
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:09,300
we have so many different examples of it

1904
01:42:15,450 --> 01:42:12,730
some of it I think is is like sleight of

1905
01:42:17,370 --> 01:42:15,460
hand or parlor tricks but then there's

1906
01:42:18,959 --> 01:42:17,380
the other part of it that there was

1907
01:42:21,660 --> 01:42:18,969
something going on at the atomic level

1908
01:42:25,530 --> 01:42:21,670
and that there there was real change

1909
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:25,540
happening is is telekinesis is something

1910
01:42:31,830 --> 01:42:29,050
that we need to take serious yeah I have

1911
01:42:35,129 --> 01:42:31,840
published a book about it the PK man I

1912
01:42:38,310 --> 01:42:35,139
mentioned Ted Owens who I studied for 10

1913
01:42:41,010 --> 01:42:38,320
years he called himself the PK man TK

1914
01:42:44,220 --> 01:42:41,020
for psychokinesis which is just another

1915
01:42:47,340 --> 01:42:44,230
word for telekinesis he felt that it's

1916
01:42:50,250 --> 01:42:47,350
just as easy for a person who has this

1917
01:42:54,209 --> 01:42:50,260
ability to influence large scale events

1918
01:42:58,530 --> 01:42:54,219
like hurricanes tornadoes heat spells

1919
01:43:01,649 --> 01:42:58,540
ending droughts massive power blackouts

1920
01:43:05,399 --> 01:43:01,659
and the like and athletic events as it

1921
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:05,409
is to what has been demonstrated now in

1922
01:43:12,990 --> 01:43:08,850
the laboratory to influence as tiny

1923
01:43:14,469 --> 01:43:13,000
systems even microscopic systems at

1924
01:43:19,120 --> 01:43:14,479
times

1925
01:43:22,390 --> 01:43:19,130
for you when if you were to have to

1926
01:43:24,939 --> 01:43:22,400
present some evidence and and you were

1927
01:43:29,279 --> 01:43:24,949
gonna push that evidence across the

1928
01:43:31,509 --> 01:43:29,289
table as the best laboratory proof of

1929
01:43:36,430 --> 01:43:31,519
telekinesis and the reality what would

1930
01:43:38,709 --> 01:43:36,440
that be well I'll give you one that

1931
01:43:42,310 --> 01:43:38,719
comes right to the top of my head

1932
01:43:44,529 --> 01:43:42,320
it was Ingo Swann a very famous psychic

1933
01:43:47,500 --> 01:43:44,539
did some studies in New York with

1934
01:43:50,560 --> 01:43:47,510
Gertrude smiler and it was very simple

1935
01:43:53,529 --> 01:43:50,570
she took ice water inside of a thermos

1936
01:43:55,120 --> 01:43:53,539
bottle and it had a thermistor attached

1937
01:43:58,120 --> 01:43:55,130
to it so she could measure the

1938
01:44:00,209 --> 01:43:58,130
temperature and because ice water is

1939
01:44:03,819 --> 01:44:00,219
pretty stable

1940
01:44:07,959 --> 01:44:03,829
you know Isis water freezes at 32

1941
01:44:10,270 --> 01:44:07,969
degrees so when you have ice in the

1942
01:44:13,870 --> 01:44:10,280
water it's very close to that and she

1943
01:44:17,169 --> 01:44:13,880
asked him to use his telekinetic

1944
01:44:21,129 --> 01:44:17,179
abilities to influence the temperature

1945
01:44:24,489 --> 01:44:21,139
inside the thermos bottle and he he was

1946
01:44:28,359 --> 01:44:24,499
able to do it very dramatically so

1947
01:44:32,169 --> 01:44:28,369
that's a simple example of a experiment

1948
01:44:35,049 --> 01:44:32,179
and in telekinesis or psychokinesis that

1949
01:44:36,969 --> 01:44:35,059
produce good results I want to thank you

1950
01:44:39,580 --> 01:44:36,979
not only for this conversation tonight

1951
01:44:41,500 --> 01:44:39,590
but everything that you have done for

1952
01:44:43,270 --> 01:44:41,510
this community over the years it's just

1953
01:44:45,969 --> 01:44:43,280
a tremendous body of work and your

1954
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:45,979
influence on me personally as been

1955
01:44:51,819 --> 01:44:47,690
profound and I want to thank you for

1956
01:44:55,390 --> 01:44:51,829
this conversation tonight when new

1957
01:44:58,629 --> 01:44:55,400
thinking aloud is released how often do

1958
01:45:01,719 --> 01:44:58,639
you do it every Monday Wednesday and

1959
01:45:06,339 --> 01:45:01,729
Friday you're doing it right three three

1960
01:45:08,439 --> 01:45:06,349
days a week yeah and okay so Monday

1961
01:45:13,209 --> 01:45:08,449
Wednesday Friday is when the release has

1962
01:45:16,330 --> 01:45:13,219
happened so this Monday a new release

1963
01:45:19,479 --> 01:45:16,340
this Friday some a new episode is

1964
01:45:22,169 --> 01:45:19,489
released yet tomorrow morning at 1:00

1965
01:45:24,910 --> 01:45:22,179
a.m. Pacific time I'm releasing a

1966
01:45:28,310 --> 01:45:24,920
fascinating interview with a healer

1967
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:28,320
named Joyce Hawkes who was also a

1968
01:45:35,030 --> 01:45:31,050
cellular biologist work with the

1969
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:35,040
electron microscope looking into the

1970
01:45:40,310 --> 01:45:37,770
interior of cells and then she became a

1971
01:45:42,410 --> 01:45:40,320
spiritual healer and talks about how

1972
01:45:46,910 --> 01:45:42,420
healing works at the cellular level

1973
01:45:49,819 --> 01:45:46,920
where do you guys tape at I have a video

1974
01:45:51,979 --> 01:45:49,829
studio now here in my house in

1975
01:45:53,419 --> 01:45:51,989
Albuquerque no I got to I got to I

1976
01:45:55,839 --> 01:45:53,429
thought you were still up in San

1977
01:45:58,939 --> 01:45:55,849
Francisco I didn't realize you were now

1978
01:46:02,750 --> 01:45:58,949
no I moved from San Francisco from the

1979
01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:02,760
Bay Area to Las Vegas in 2001 and then

1980
01:46:09,350 --> 01:46:06,690
from Las Vegas to Albuquerque in 2018

1981
01:46:10,729 --> 01:46:09,360
thank you so much Jeffrey and I look

1982
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:10,739
forward to the next time that you're on

1983
01:46:14,689 --> 01:46:13,050
the show with this just again a great

1984
01:46:16,910 --> 01:46:14,699
conversation tonight thank you so much

1985
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:16,920
better player you bet you've been a

1986
01:46:22,160 --> 01:46:19,530
great host yeah I learned from the best

1987
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:22,170
I steal from the best never forget that

1988
01:46:26,979 --> 01:46:24,570
Jeffrey thank you so much enjoy the rest

1989
01:46:30,379 --> 01:46:26,989
of your evening you too

1990
01:46:34,089 --> 01:46:30,389
Jeffrey Mishlove again the links are

1991
01:46:36,979 --> 01:46:34,099
right there at Jimmy Church radio.com

1992
01:46:39,109 --> 01:46:36,989
fantastic conversation thinking aloud

1993
01:46:41,689 --> 01:46:39,119
and don't forget new thinking aloud

1994
01:46:47,640 --> 01:46:41,699
right there on YouTube I'll be right